Green Party talking coalition with yellow Tories ('Lib Dems')

[Random]

Fucks sake is there anyone we CAN vote for lol.

Vote Green without illusions

 

[embree]

Basically leaving because you don't like having your politics challanged...

From what I've seen of his contributions, Matt S has had plenty of opportunity over the years to leave because he doesn't like having his politics challenged but has instead stuck around to give balanced and honest insights into the Green Party and their internal structure/his place within it.

His reasons for not bothering much with U75 anymore are pretty much the same as mine btw

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

From what I've seen of his contributions, Matt S has had plenty of opportunity over the years to leave because he doesn't like having his politics challenged but has instead stuck around to give balanced and honest insights into the Green Party and their internal structure/his place within it.

His reasons for not bothering much with U75 anymore are pretty much the same as mine btw

Fuck off you cunt.

 

[embree]

Fuck off you cunt.

charmed I'm sure

 

[sihhi]

Hearing what people have to say, and then telling the membership about it and having a vote, is exactly the correct thing to do.

Local council coalitions?
Is the aim NOT to separate means from ends - in which case there should be a default position coalitions with capitalist parties are not on?
Or is the aim to do whatever in a bid for soft-social/green capitalist reforms (which can be used as weapons of attack by the business class.)?
[Hence no criticism of the EU - seeing as its a good place for those kind of reforms.]

2. The structure is NOT the problem in my view. The passivity of membership because of a culture of 'niceness' and unwillingness to offend is the problem. It is entirely possible to hold local parties to account regionally and nationally. We don't do it enough because people don't want to have fights, and because we haven't had an honest enough conversation as a national party about our ideology and strategies for social change. That is much more of a problem than structure, which (while not perfect) is much MUCH more accountable than any other political party in the UK.

If people don't want to have "fights" - perhaps you mean actual arguments - that suggests serious difficulties in the Green Party's internal education process.
How can you have any political organisation where members believe you achieve good political results by just shutting up and sweeping up past mistakes under the carpet? It will only bite you worse later.

What has stopped this conversation? If the structure was working as you suggest then it would mean an amicable conversation would be no problem.

P.S. The Green Party does not have pro-ALMO politics. It *does* have two or three incidences I know of over the last decade in which councillors have felt pressured into voting for ALMOs as the "least worst" funding option on offer given the current funding framework. That's not a position I agree with, but it is simply not true to say that we are in favour of ALMOs as a party - we aren't, and the vast majority of Green councillors have voted and campaigned against them. If we were in favour of ALMOs as a party, they wouldn't have named me housing spokesperson, for a start.

I agree most GP people are against ALMOs. But the most right wing votes have been in places with most success - like Brighton & Hove City Council- which had at least 12 Green councillors.
So far, the more councillors = the more political influence = greater cooptation.
You didn't make an analysis of Green Party people privatising Leeds Airport.

P.P.S. I probably won't post again on this thread, for the same reason that I've mostly given up on U75 - it'll just be more heat than light and end up with people swearing at each other, which I can't really be bothered with these days. Which makes me sad, but oh well. I wish that people could recognise that it is possible for a party to be imperfect (which the Green Party is) without being *the enemy* (which the Green Party isn't).

It's your decision - if you want light, contribute light and ignore the heat.
When the Green Party acts likes an enemy - in spite of how it talks - it's not unreasonable to debate their positions.

From what I've seen of his contributions, Matt S has had plenty of opportunity over the years to leave because he doesn't like having his politics challenged but has instead stuck around to give balanced and honest insights into the Green Party and their internal structure/his place within it.
His reasons for not bothering much with U75 anymore are pretty much the same as mine btw

Same as above.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Vote Green without illusions

I would if they bothered standing here, which understandably they don't (6th safest seat in UK)

As I've said before, I think of them more as a sort of popular front against certain particularly toxic aspects of neo-liberalism than a coherent party.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

I would if they bothered standing here, which understandably they don't (6th safest seat in UK)

As I've said before, I think of them more as a sort of popular front against certain particularly toxic aspects of neo-liberalism than a coherent party.

I have actually voted for them before, and I would again, in fact i would have voted for MattS who seems like one of the better ones.

But i don't think they're broadly better than any of the others and indeed they're not as good as some.

so on balance i think you're about right.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

as a Green Party member, I don't think a coalition is acceptable. Sadly, there is not the mechanism for accountability of Green elected reps that there should be. I have tried, and repeatedly failed, to get even Green Left members to address this issue.

Very true last point, regardless of the Sheffield situation or other coalition matters (I am a coalition skeptic and GL member too)

Autonomy of local parties has been alluded to elsewhere on this thread. Generally it is a strength, but some kind of uniform mechanism for holding reps accountable would be helpful. At the moment do whinges not end up channeling upward to the opaqueness that is GPRC?

 

[sihhi]

Autonomy of local parties has been alluded to elsewhere on this thread. Generally it is a strength, but some kind of uniform mechanism for holding reps accountable would be helpful. At the moment do whinges not end up channeling upward to the opaqueness that is GPRC?

You are the Green Party member, you are in a position to tell the rest of us.

 

[butchersapron]

Green leader at Norfolk County Council joins Tories

'Inspired by Cameron'

He said he was particularly attracted by the Conservatives' policies on deficit reduction and the NHS and impressed by the way the local council had tried to protect public services in Norfolk.

He said he was also proud when the Conservative Prime Minister David Cameron "inspired" the international community to intervene in Libya earlier this year.

Mr Hardy was elected as county councillor for Thorpe Hamlet ward in Norwich in June 2009 and became the first Green member of the Norfolk Police Authority.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

A Green finds his natural home.

 

[butchersapron]

Even the Greens think the lib-dems are too shit for them now.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

No abstain type option.

It depends on the specifics.

I wouldn't denounce Plaid for having gone into coalition with PFI war criminals.

On the whole I am skeptical of coalitions though, and LDs are near the top of the list to be skeptical about.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Yes they should be attacked and they should be held to account by their voters and most prominently if they have the nerve to, their members.

As we see, membership have turned down the idea.

You were quick enough to call for attacks at the very notion and wonder at the "nerve" of membership

Are you going to be equally quick to applaud the resolve and principle of membership?

 

[butchersapron]

As we see, membership have turned down the idea.

You were quick enough to call for attacks at the very notion and wonder at the "nerve" of membership

Are you going to be equally quick to applaud the resolve and principle of membership?

Equally quick? What 18 months later quick? You know this is an old thread bumped because the Leader of the Green Group on Norfolk county council has joined the tories right?

As for the old issue this was originally about, well the membership voted to go into coalition with people you spend most of your time on here denouncing as murderers and criminals - are you going to be as equally quick to rabidly denounce this spineless cowardice of your membership as you were to applaud their 'resolve and principle '?

 

[butchersapron]

Yes they should be attacked and they should be held to account by their voters and most prominently if they have the nerve to, their members.

As we see, membership have turned down the idea.

You were quick enough to call for attacks at the very notion and wonder at the "nerve" of membership

Are you going to be equally quick to applaud the resolve and principle of membership?

And whilst you're at it, can you tell me exactly what you find wrong with arguing that politicians should be held accountable to the electorate and the membership of their party?