Greek elections

[butchersapron]

Not me, there isn't anything near me and I can't afford to go to London but I'm happy that people are going to show solidarity as I think it really does mean a lot to people in Greece, I get the impression that a lot of Greeks feel isolated and hated - knowing that people do not buy into the bullshit we are sold goes a long way I think.

Yep, that's the point, loads of greeks here- i think even more when i'm originally from and now work but not had time to gauge or do anything this week - but loads of people giving strength to NO even if just shoring it up. Break the encirclement. Visually then if it makes networks, materially, etc

 

[gosub]

It's usually weeks of reflection in the UK, unless it's a ref on Scottish independence, or leaving the EU.

No, the direct comparison is media deadzone on pollingday til polls shut.

 

[redsquirrel]

<snip>

Good to hear from you again Dimitris

 

[Poi E]

Interesting that people in Germany comprise the largest number of donors to the Greek bailout fund on indiegogo. So the mainstream media can shove their stereotype of the beancounting, austere, finger-wagging German up their collective arses.

 

[redsquirrel]

Not that it'll matter, but whose out on NO stuff tmw?

There's rallies in Melbourne, Sydney, Canberra and Brisbane, not surprising really considering the number of Australians with a Greek background. Unfortunately I was sitting in an airport waiting to get back to Aus so couldn't make it. Don't know if some of the other Aussie U75's did, ice-is-forming, albionism, eatmorecheese ?

 

[Dimitris]

Drone video of yesterday's "NO" demo - gathering in central Athens

 

[pocketscience]

Interesting that people in Germany comprise the largest number of donors to the Greek bailout fund on indiegogo. So the mainstream media can shove their stereotype of the beancounting, austere, finger-wagging German up their collective arses.

Actually, Germany doesn't have a very good reputation amongst international charity organisations. A more reliable source than that crowdfunding (which gained a lot of mainstream media coverage in Germany - which may explain the high numbers) would be the Carities Aid Foundation and particularly their annual World Giving Index reports.
https://www.cafonline.org/publications/2014-publications/world-giving-index-2014.aspx
You'll notice that in 2014 only 48% of germans donated to charity (as opposed to 74% in the UK and Ireland). Even Liberia and Turkmenistan give more than Germany.
Couple that with their position in the nation private savings/ debt statistics (usually top 5 in the black) then shamefully, they really can be judged to be a bit tight.
Eta: i wonder how many donations were made in full knowledge that the'd never reach the target and have to pay up.

 

[phildwyer]

I have read a few examples of people arguing that polling companies are intentionally overstating yes, can there be any truth to this or is it CT territory?

That would be my impression, based on a completely unscientific testing of the public mood. Everyone says they will vote No, but everyone thinks the verdict will be Yes, presumably based on the polls. Time will tell...

 

[phildwyer]

Anyhoo, does Greece have that?

I can say for definite that they have no ley seca. Hic...

 

[J Ed]

Interview with Yanis in El Mundo in which he calls the behaviour of the Troika terrorism. Translation of parts of the interview here

 

[Poi E]

Actually, Germany doesn't have a very good reputation amongst international charity organisations. A more reliable source than that crowdfunding (which gained a lot of mainstream media coverage in Germany - which may explain the high numbers) would be the Carities Aid Foundation and particularly their annual World Giving Index reports.
https://www.cafonline.org/publications/2014-publications/world-giving-index-2014.aspx
You'll notice that in 2014 only 48% of germans donated to charity (as opposed to 74% in the UK and Ireland). Even Liberia and Turkmenistan give more than Germany.
Couple that with their position in the nation private savings/ debt statistics (usually top 5 in the black) then shamefully, they really can be judged to be a bit tight.
Eta: i wonder how many donations were made in full knowledge that the'd never reach the target and have to pay up.

Ok, but the real point is the irony here with citizens of the main creditor nation being at the top of the donor list. Was top- the UK is number one now. The payment went straight into my PayPal account.

 

[MochaSoul]

Not that it'll matter, but whose out on NO stuff tmw?

If I can arrive by 3pm, I may get to London yet.

Wow, Mocha is Portugese thought he was English

old enough to remember 74 Mocha?

She (existentialist ) was born in 75, so no . Still, I grew up "with" 74 all around me. There's nothing quite like growing up listening to the stories of the people who live through dictatorships to get a good idea of what "people sovereignty" is really all about. That's why I'm doing my best to get to London, if I can). It may not be a Salazar aided by a capitalist elite and a Catholic Church but that's what I regard the EU as in relation to Greece, Portugal, Spain, etc.
That's also why I'm a leftie and I don't, by any means, mean Labour by that.

 

[MochaSoul]

I can say for definite that they have no ley seca. Hic...

Lei seca, in Portuguese, actually refers to prohibition (usually regarding alcoholic drinks such as Prohibition Era in the US).

ETA: It translates as Dry Law in eng.

 

[pocketscience]

Ok, but the real point is the irony here with citizens of the main creditor nation being at the top of the donor list. Was top- the UK is number one now. The payment went straight into my PayPal account.

No not really, the real irony is that at the root cause of all this mess the main creditor nation was bribing the officials of the recipient nation to use that very credit to buy bogus & unnecessary submarines or security systems from them (Thyssenkrupp/ Ferrostaal, Siemens etc).
http://www.spiegel.de/international...bribed-their-way-to-greek-deals-a-693973.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siemens_Greek_bribery_scandal
http://www.thepressproject.net/arti...rman-arms-manufacturer-over-faulty-submarines

The even sadder irony of course is that the country profiting most today from this calamitously dysfunctional continent and the knock on effect of the low currency value is the export dependent Germany (all the time adding to the detrimental effects to over half of Europes population).
I wonder if they really do want to find a working solution or perpetuate the misery so they can keep on profiting.
http://www.spiegel.de/international...-s-crisis-is-germany-s-blessing-a-808248.html

 

[MochaSoul]

No, the direct comparison is media deadzone on pollingday til polls shut.

I should have thought about that one actually.

 

[Patteran]

A Greek bail-in could resemble the rescue plan agreed by Cyprus in 2013, when customers’ funds were seized to shore up the banks, with a haircut imposed on uninsured deposits over €100,000.

As an aside, I fuckin hate that phrase 'haircut' - it reeks of the unaffected & unthreatened playing dismissively with other people's savings, pensions, economies. And its meaning has been changed recently by journalists who've latched onto the phrase as if its casualness demonstrates profound insider knowledge - from a specific mark to market measure of differentiation (I think), to the current sloppy meaning of any loss. 'Turns out we'll have to take a haircut on that one, yeah?' Vague twats.

 

[treelover]

 

[MochaSoul]

As an aside, I fuckin hate that phrase 'haircut' - it reeks of the unaffected & unthreatened playing dismissively with other people's savings, pensions, economies. And its meaning has been changed recently by journalists who've latched onto the phrase as if its casualness demonstrates profound insider knowledge - from a specific mark to market measure of differentiation (I think), to the current sloppy meaning of any loss. 'Turns out we'll have to take a haircut on that one, yeah?' Vague twats.

One for here: http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...shit-people-with-shit-politics.335642/page-11

 

[chilango]

Lei seca, in Portuguese, actually refers to prohibition (usually regarding alcoholic drinks such as Prohibition Era in the US).

ETA: It translates as Dry Law in eng.

In Mexico (which may be where phildwyer is referencing here?) there is (or was when I was there) a law shutting bars and stopping the sale of alcohol during elections.

 

[MochaSoul]

One for here: http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...shit-people-with-shit-politics.335642/page-11

Incidentally, Giles Fraser (I love that man even if sometimes he totally misses the point) had a go at a member of the German CDU party regarding this notion of "haircuts" in the last Moral Maze. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0608nlb

 

[MochaSoul]

In Mexico (which may be where phildwyer is referencing here?) there is (or was when I was there) a law shutting bars and stopping the sale of alcohol during elections.

Oh... I had no idea. Thanks for that.

 

[DotCommunist]

In Mexico (which may be where phildwyer is referencing here?) there is (or was when I was there) a law shutting bars and stopping the sale of alcohol during elections.

is that to stop crafty vote rigging going on by masters of shennanigans who find a citizen and buy his vote with booze

 

[Patteran]

In Mexico (which may be where phildwyer is referencing here?) there is (or was when I was there) a law shutting bars and stopping the sale of alcohol during elections.

(and elsewhere in Latin America, & in some states of India, too)

 

[DotCommunist]

looks like the german gov just blinked

 

[butchersapron]

Just back from a solidarity/break the encirclement thing. Not a great turnout, not the worst. 35-40 at start, 70-80 when went for pint. NUT and Unite in attendance. Think trades council supported. Interesting things was outside the pub two actual KKE members cleverly positioned to hoover up traffic and just the right distance to say they did not take part. One member about 30 and one member in 60s who looked like he'd seen a world of trouble and held back. Younger one didn't know EAM, ELAS, Meligalas so we had some fun talking about lynching nazis. They were both clearly committed serious people. Their leaflet talks of 'rupture-disengagement' in brilliant third period language. Lots of greek flags and students at main thing.

 

[butchersapron]

looks like the german gov just blinked

Where?

 

[Belushi]

Nicked from the guardian

 

[Belushi]

Looking at that graph it's all world wars, the great depression and the period leading up to Mussolini seizing power in Italy :thumbs :

 

[DotCommunist]

Where?

erroneous snippet of news on the radio, quoting a telegraph article about a conversation from a year back regarding a temporary, semi exit for greece. They reported it as being from the german finance ministers lips today. Can't check the article because the telegraph website hates my computer but if anyone can It'd be useful to know if he's said it again today

 

[MochaSoul]

Where?

erroneous snippet of news on the radio, quoting a telegraph article about a conversation from a year back regarding a temporary, semi exit for greece. They reported it as being from the german finance ministers lips today. Can't check the article because the telegraph website hates my computer but if anyone can It'd be useful to know if he's said it again today

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...is-live-referendum-sunday-vote-austerity.html

Greece crisis live: Germany suggests Greece could exit eurozone 'temporarily'
German finance minister floats idea of temporary Greek exit from the eurozone as Yanis Varoufakis, Greece's finance minister, accuses creditor powers of "terrorism"
11.23
Wolfgang Schaeuble, Germany's finance minister, has suggested that Greece's could exit the euro temporarily. He told Germany's top-selling red top:

Greece is a member of the eurozone. There's no doubt about that. Whether with the euro or temporarily without it: only the Greeks can answer this question. And it is clear that we will not leave the people in the lurch.

He also said the Greek government's actions suggested that they did not want to reform as he described the risk of contagion from an exit as "relatively small". He said:

The markets have reacted with restraint in the last few days. That shows that the problem is manageable.