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Greek elections

phildwyer said:
Of course they did.

In fact the most positive aspect of this affair is that it brings the true nature of the usorious world-system into very clear focus. The Greek people are being asked whether the interests of capital should be ranked above the interests of humanity. That's a question everyone should be asking.
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Whereas our referendum will be framed exclusively within the 'debate' about what type of 'free-trade area' relationship best serves the interest of financialised capital.
 
BBC reporting that the European Central Bank is going to stop providing support to Greek banks as of today.

Capital controls by the end of tomorrow, if that is the case.

*edit* which on reflection is probably unlikely, given that the Greek bailout programme doesn't technically finish until 30th and the ECB won't want to be seen to push the Greek economy over the edge.
 
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Even mainstream economists think the Troika's policies are crazy ...
It seems to me that the troika — I think it’s time to stop the pretense that anything changed, and go back to the old name — expected, or at least hoped, that Greece would be a repeat of this story. Either Tsipras would do the usual thing, abandoning much of his coalition and probably being forced into alliance with the center-right, or the Syriza government would fall. And it might yet happen.

But at least as of right now Tsipras seems unwilling to fall on his sword. Instead, faced with a troika ultimatum, he has scheduled a referendum on whether to accept. This is leading to much hand-wringing and declarations that he’s being irresponsible, but he is, in fact, doing the right thing, for two reasons.

First, if it wins the referendum, the Greek government will be empowered by democratic legitimacy, which still, I think, matters in Europe. (And if it doesn’t, we need to know that, too.)

Second, until now Syriza has been in an awkward place politically, with voters both furious at ever-greater demands for austerity and unwilling to leave the euro. It has always been hard to see how these desires could be reconciled; it’s even harder now. The referendum will, in effect, ask voters to choose their priority, and give Tsipras a mandate to do what he must if the troika pushes it all the way.

If you ask me, it has been an act of monstrous folly on the part of the creditor governments and institutions to push it to this point. But they have, and I can’t at all blame Tsipras for turning to the voters, instead of turning on them.
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http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/06/27/europes-moment-of-truth/?smid=tw-share&_r=0
 
belboid said:
That was never what they argued, nothing like it. I know the 'institutions' and our media like to pretend that is what they said, but it's drivel. They argued that the terms of the EU 'bailouts' were failing and that they needed to be changed. As most economists actually agree. (see brogdale's point about Peston, above)
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I think there's a pretty good argument to be made along the lines that the current clusterfuck is a direct outcome of the moronic 'lazy Greeks want us to give them free stuff' narratives that people in the 'creditor countries' have been sold.

Now the troika are in effect prisoners of their own stupid propaganda. They'd really struggle to sell anything other than complete capitulation to their own electorates.
 
gosub said:
Vote yes for something that used to be on the table but isn't now or no for something that was never offered:rolleyes:
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greecenein_3357110b.jpg


Graffiti in Athens this morning: in Greek it says "Yes", in German "No". I think its going to be a surreal week.
 
"This is your judgement, your opinion, your interpretation. Not ours! There is a logic to your view but only if there is an implicit threat that a No from the Greek people to the institutions’ proposal will be followed up by moves to eject Greece, illegally, out of the euro. Such a threat would not be consistent with basic principles of European democratic governance and European Law.

To those who instruct us to phrase the referendum question as a euro-drachma dilemma, my answer is crystal clear: European Treaties make provisions for an exit from the EU. They do not make any provisions for an exit from the Eurozone. With good reason, of course, as the indivisibility of our Monetary Union is part of its raison d’ etre. To ask us to phrase the referendum question as a choice involving exit from the Eurozone is to ask us to violate EU Treaties and EU Law. I suggest to anyone who wants us, or anyone else, to hold a referendum on EMU membership to recommend a change in the Treaties."
 
gosub said:
http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2015/06/2...-during-the-27th-june-2015-eurogroup-meeting/
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But even if we managed to pass the institutions’ proposal through Parliament, we would be facing a major problem of ownership and implementation. Put simply, just as in the past the governments that pushed through policies dictated by the institutions could not carry the people with them, we too would fail to do so.
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It is time to take stock. The reason we find ourselves in the present conundrum is one: Our government’s primary proposal to you and the institutions, which I articulated here in the Eurogroup in my first ever intervention, was never taken seriously. It was the suggestion that common ground be created between the prevailing MoU and our new government’s program.
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It is as if we were told, to paraphrase Henry Ford, that we could have any reform list, any agreement, as long as it was the MoU. Common ground was thus sacrificed in favour of imposing upon our government a humiliating retreat. This is my view. But it is not important now. Now it is up to the Greek people to decide.
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Immediately after 5th July, if the people have voted Yes, the institutions’ proposal will be signed. Until then, during the next week, as the referendum approaches, any deviation from normality, especially in the banking sector, will be invariably interpreted as an attempt to coerce Greek voters. Greek society has paid a hefty price, through huge fiscal contraction, in order to be part of our monetary union. But a democratic monetary union that threatens a people about to deliver their verdict with capital controls and bank closures is a contradiction in terms.
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In years to come we may well be asked “Where were you on the 27th of June? And what did you do to avert what happened? At the very least we should be able to say that: We gave the people who live under the worst depression a chance to consider their options. We tried democracy as a means of breaking a deadlock. And we did what it took to give them a few days to do so.
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I received the following extraordinary answer: “The Eurogroup is an informal group. Thus it is not bound by Treaties or written regulations. While unanimity is conventionally adhered to, the Eurogroup President is not bound to explicit rules.”
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Whoa! Whoa! Whoa!
 
Barking_Mad said:
Obama has weighed in urging them to sort it out, or else contagion's a comin'.
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I'm not sure that contagion is actually their primary concern...the EcoFin have been at pains to use the word quarantined repeatedly to convey the impression that cutting Greece loose is an option. I suspect that the yanks are more spooked by the geopolitics, Greece's geography and the significant NATO assets located within its borders.
 
BBC's Robert Peston reporting that Greek ATM's will be restricted to €60 withdrawls per account per day, with banks closed until the tuesday after the referendum (7th July).

any ideas on whether, in the event of a 'Yes' vote, Syriza (who are apparently calling for a 'No') will call a snap election or will fall apart?
 
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