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Greek elections

After watching the interview, at least we know now what he has been doing for 5 months. Learning how to sell a shit sandwich.
 
Has anyone seen an interesting biography of Alexis? He's an interesting character. Ive been struck by how smiley and positive he's appeared throughout this whole thing... and now add to that his stubbornness to be knocked out the way by this process, despite the failures on his shoulders.... I'm curious to know more about him.
 
ska invita said:
Has anyone seen an interesting biography of Alexis? He's an interesting character. Ive been struck by how smiley and positive he's appeared throughout this whole thing... and now add to that his stubbornness to be knocked out the way by this process, despite the failures on his shoulders.... I'm curious to know more about him.
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I get the impression he was asked to come in and undertake his role but never really considered himself a political animal 'I have only been a politician for five months' is one thing I recall hearing him saying when talking to a CD fella. Made his push for robust and determined grexit (I hate myself) but when all was done, back to the day job. Can't say I didn't try etc.
 
gosub said:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...-with-call-for-massive-Greek-debt-relief.html

If only every bank manager was as helpful when you default
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There's something fucking odd going on when the IMF are seen to be pretty much riding to the rescue against the imposition of neoliberal austerity measures.

Of course they do have more prior form for this austerity approach to failing to sort out bankrupt countries than the EU after 3 decades doing it.

Having read a fair few of their papers over the last few years though it almost seems like they're attempting to be proper economists and annalyse the impacts of their policies and verify their assumptions. They've released reports over the last few years (albeit working papers, not official IMF views) that essentially refute all the basic tenets of austerity, so I'm not that surprised at this, but it's still fucking odd.

And in the telegraph as well. Through the looking glass stuff.
 
DotCommunist said:
I get the impression he was asked to come in and undertake his role but never really considered himself a political animal 'I have only been a politician for five months' is one thing I recall hearing him saying when talking to a CD fella. Made his push for robust and determined grexit (I hate myself) but when all was done, back to the day job. Can't say I didn't try etc.
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He didn't want or argue for grexit though. And he's been in 'politics' his entire life.
 
butchersapron said:
He didn't want or argue for grexit though. And he's been in 'politics' his entire life.
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right, I just recall the statesman interview and the interview with him and a CD bloke- and by politics when he said 'politician' I think he was talking about electoral stuff. Thats the impression I got anyway.
 
butchersapron said:
Not read yet:

Greece: The Struggle Continues
A definitive account of what has transpired over the last few weeks in Greece, and what’s next for Syriza and the European left.

by Sebastian Budgen & Stathis Kouvelakis

Sebastian Budgen is an editor for Verso Books and serves on the editorial board ofHistorical Materialism. Stathis Kouvelakis teaches political theory at King’s College London and serves on the central committee of Syriza.

Key Points - (this bit won't down load properly, but i think the cut off link is the last one)
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really interesting piece that one...full of insider insight.

This on the lack of Exit was interesting...the lack of any meaningful move to exit is such a big part of what has gone down so far:

And this Europeanism that you describe in the center faction of the Syriza leadership, what is its ideological nature? Because these are not liberals or even Negrian federalists — these are people who think of themselves in most cases as Marxists? Is there an influence from Habermas or Étienne Balibar?


I think that, in this case, Balibar is probably more relevant thanHabermas. Once again, I think we have to take Tsakalotos at his word. He gave an interview to Paul Mason just the day after European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker’s very humiliating counter-proposals were sent.
When Mason asked him about the euro, Tsakalotos said that exit would be an absolute catastrophe and that Europe would relive the 1930s with the return of competition between national currencies and the rise of various nationalisms and fascism.

So for these people the choice is between two things: either being “European” and accepting the existing framework, which somehow objectively represents a step forward compared the old reality of nation-states, or being “anti-European” which is equated with a falling back into nationalism, a reactionary, regressive move.

This is a weak way in which the European Union is legitimated — it might not be ideal but it’s better than anything else on the table.

I think that in this case we can clearly see what the ideology at work here is. Although you don’t positively sign up to the project and you have serious doubts about the neoliberal orientation and top-down structure of European institutions, nevertheless you move within its coordinates and can’t imagine anything better outside of its framework.

This is the meaning of the kind of denunciations of Grexit as a kind of return to the 1930s or Grexit as a kind of apocalypse. This is the symptom of the leadership’s own entrapment in the ideology of left-Europeanism.


############

also as to what is to come for Syriza:

But objectively, the process leading to the disintegration of Syriza has already started. Syriza as we knew it is over and splits are absolutely inevitable. The only issue now is how they will happen and what form they will take.

However what is also likely to happen is a drastic reshaping of a governmental majority, towards some form of “national unity” or “great coalition” cabinet. The whole logic of the situation points to that direction.

The four ministers of the Left Platform will leave the cabinet this week and tomorrow’s vote in parliament on the agreement will validate the existence of a new pro-austerity majority, regrouping most of the Syriza’s MPs and all other parties, with the exception of the KKE and the Nazis.

It is expected that as many as forty Syriza MPs will reject the agreement and they might be followed by some from the Independent Greeks. Already the leader of To Potami behaves like a minister in waiting and the Right discusses quite openly the possibility of joining the government, although no such decision has been taken yet.

...
And, constitutionally, is the leadership in a position to purge the party?
It is certainly in a position to purge the government, and this is a good thing. Of course, it means that the Left Platform ministers will soon be expelled from the cabinet. About the party, we’ll see.
 
ska invita said:
<>snip>

This is a weak way in which the European Union is legitimated — it might not be ideal but it’s better than anything else on the table.

I think that in this case we can clearly see what the ideology at work here is. Although you don’t positively sign up to the project and you have serious doubts about the neoliberal orientation and top-down structure of European institutions, nevertheless you move within its coordinates and can’t imagine anything better outside of its framework.

This is the meaning of the kind of denunciations of Grexit as a kind of return to the 1930s or Grexit as a kind of apocalypse. This is the symptom of the leadership’s own entrapment in the ideology of left-Europeanism.
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See the various EU threads in the UK forum of plenty of examples of this entrapment.
 
not-bono-ever said:
So the IMF have announced that greek debt level is unpayable - some should be written off ' and the austerity regime will hinder the economy.


Erm....
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BBC radio news is trying to spin this as a means of opening up real negotiations for debt relief, but only after pro-austerity votes in the Greek parliament today.

It strikes me that the IMF has nothing to lose by stating the blindingly obvious and that the undemocratic Commission and the ECB have no intention of letting the Greek government and working class, or any other potential anti-austerity movement/voices, off the hook.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice
 
free spirit said:
There's something fucking odd going on when the IMF are seen to be pretty much riding to the rescue against the imposition of neoliberal austerity measures.

Of course they do have more prior form for this austerity approach to failing to sort out bankrupt countries than the EU after 3 decades doing it.

Having read a fair few of their papers over the last few years though it almost seems like they're attempting to be proper economists and annalyse the impacts of their policies and verify their assumptions. They've released reports over the last few years (albeit working papers, not official IMF views) that essentially refute all the basic tenets of austerity, so I'm not that surprised at this, but it's still fucking odd.

And in the telegraph as well. Through the looking glass stuff.
Click to expand...
i think its too much to say the IMF are 'against' austerity - they are all up for the 50bn privatisation of the majority of the greek state, and all the rest, and didnt exactly stop the endless waves of austerity that have already hit greece over recent years...all they are saying is that has to come with some debt write off to make the numbers vaguely add up....

the question is why the greeks havent been offered this relief so far, and why its taken the IMF and US to have to flag up the obvious? The only conclusion I can come up with is its becasue the northern europeans want Greece out and feeling unable to actively tell them to leave they are only prepared to offer an impossible deal. That seems to be how Syriza view it, according to what ive seen
Nick Malkoutzis @NickMalkoutzis
Govt's 2 lines of argument: They wanted to kick us out of euro so we're staying in & they wanted a coup so we're not going anywhere #Greece
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*As to the Telegraph I think im right in saying its the most anti-eu, pro-ukip paper in the UK, so maybe thats not such a surprise.
 
Consistent response from the intelligent-yet-capitalist Economic Intelligence Unit

Syriza's rise to popularity in recent years was the consequence not the cause of the Greek crisis. Its six-month defiance in the face of euro zone pressure was borne of political realism. There is no longer any political future in Greece for a political party that accepts orders from bureaucrats in Brussels or the IMF in Washington. This explains why Syriza refused to negotiate in the manner to which its euro zone partners had become accustomed with previous Greek governments. Syriza had been determined not to go the way of Pasok, the social democratic party led by George Papandreou that criticised bail-out policies but nevertheless succumbed to them and in the process committed political suicide.

When push came to shove, however, it was Mr Tsipras who surrendered, not his euro zone opponents. Syriza's election manifesto was based on a false premise—that in government it would be able to reject bail-out austerity measures but stay in the euro zone—and now that conceit has been exposed. This may cost Mr Tsipras dearly and it is also likely to split his party.
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And still maintaining prediction that a Greek exit is most probable

Our core view is that the deal outlined by the Eurogroup of euro area ministers of finance on July 12th will be impossible to implement and is politically untenable. Grexit remains very much on the agenda.
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The IMF interjection does raise some fundamental questions. My first thought is to what extent this might be part of a choreographed, co-ordinated move in an attempt to effect a negative response from the Greek parliament hastening their exit. Though, if it were, it comes with the 'price' of exposing the europeans as incompetent or callous or both.

Peston was speculating this morning that the IMF analysis might also threaten the possibility of Friday's Bundestag vote on the package.
 
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Why didn't the Gref have a question on membership of the EC and the Eurozone, as well as on the earlier bailout proposals? Asking people to rank all three by preference, perhaps? At least then Tsipras would have had a clear mandate for whatever course he chose at the weekend. Not that he seems to be finding it tough to take the country with him, odd though that is.
 
killer b said:
because exit doesn't seem to have been part of the Syriza leadership's plan?
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Tsipras was apparently very close to it in the "negotiations" but then Tusk barred the doors and wrestled him back into his chair. It's not really an option that can be discounted over the next few weeks.
 
killer b said:
the Jacobin interview butch posted above has a lot of detail about why exit wasn't prepared for - you should read that if you haven't
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That was interesting, actually. There are oddities about the academic/idealist left that I hadn't really considered. And it answers my question.

Perhaps, from a pragmatic viewpoint, Greece would do better either with a centrist government of national unity which can negotiate from a position of trust, or with a rightist faction prepared to contemplate repudiation and Grexit. Tsipras is about the worst that they can have.
 
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