Greek elections

[belboid]

Left Unity statement on the Struggles of the Greek People

(note: it's fucking atrocious)

 

[trabant]

To Vima is a centre/centre-left paper, aligned towards PASOK and its voting kind. Poll manipulation is pretty standard in Greece and is widely accepted. Don't forget how hard the polls were manipulated by the YES campaign during the memorandum week.

 

[Patteran]

Varoufakis has published an annotated version of the current Euro Summit Agreement - interesting in itself, & wholly undermining of any attempt to get it signed off by Syriza in the Parliament. (I found this piece by Marianna Mazzucato useful for understanding differences/contradictions between macro & micro economics discussed in the Agreement, despite the repetition of the flawed bail-out numbers for Citigroup etc that were floating round the internet last week)

 

[trabant]

Varoufakis has published an annotated version of the current Euro Summit Agreement - interesting in itself, & wholly undermining of any attempt to get it signed off by Syriza in the Parliament. (I found this piece by Marianna Mazzucato useful for understanding differences/contradictions between macro & micro economics discussed in the Agreement, despite the repetition of the flawed bail-out numbers for Citigroup etc that were floating round the internet last week)

"The ruthless conspirator of the Drachma"

 

[butchersapron]

The CC vote mentioned above appears to actually be 109 people signing a statement against the proposals - not an actual vote. The CC hasn't even been called - the jacobin piece said it hadn't been called for months, which i find hard to believe.

 

[Coolfonz]

Rather than crowd funding Greek debt can't someone crowd fund them printing another fucking currency.

And why call it the drachma anyway? Call it the Schaubleisacunt.

 

[butchersapron]

From Kouvelakis - on top of the CC members statement apparently:

Syriza’s local and regional branches have been issuing a wave of statements calling on the leadership to withdraw the agreement. And these statements have been approved overwhelmingly, often unanimously.

The Left Platform will hold a public meeting next Monday in Athens to present its alternative proposal and call for Grexit. The trade-union sector of the party, overwhelmingly supportive of the Left Platform, is playing a leading role in organizing protests against the agreement.

 

[MochaSoul]

 

[Patteran]

Voting now - Kostantopoulou & Varoufakis early 'no' votes.

ETA - Tsipras closing speech at 3.14.20 in MochaSoul's link

 

[brogdale]

Left platform appears to be splitting off..

 

[butchersapron]

YES: 150
NO: 48
PRESENT: 4 (effectively NO)

Passed

 

[MochaSoul]

Left platform appears to be splitting off..

The Guardian is calling them "defections". Is that really the case (pragmatically or otherwise)?

 

[Patteran]

Lapavistas 'no', too. This is a (predicted) Left Platform 'Oxi', right?

 

[MochaSoul]

Lapavistas 'no', too. This is a (predicted) Left Platform 'Oxi', right?

... and Lafazanis

 

[Patteran]

... and Lafazanis

(I won't lie, I had to google him)

 

[J Ed]

Depressing.

 

[trabant]

38 (+1 absence) syriza didn't vote yes. With regards to defections, in Tsipras' interview yesterday he explained that everyone in the party was allowed to vote how they liked.. There have been rumours that this might not be the case, including rumours that left platform will split off as a separate party.

edit: took my numbers from skai tv...

 

[MochaSoul]

(I won't lie, I had to google him)

I only know about him because he's so vocal and being the energy minister allows him a bigger mic and also because of some of my Facebook links and pages.

Depressing.

It would have been hard for me to feel otherwise even if the vote went the way I'd hoped.

 

[trabant]

http://www.kar.org.gr/2015/07/16/εκπληκτικές-φωτογραφίες-του-μάριου-λ/

200 are down at the main police station waiting for the 30-40 detained. Reports are that some were beaten.

 

[two sheds]

Doesn't this just mean that Greece will come back in three years asking for more money to pay off the bank loans and interest, but at that point won't have anything more to sell off so they can pay them?

 

[MochaSoul]

38 (+1 absence) syriza didn't vote yes. With regards to defections, in Tsipras' interview yesterday he explained that everyone in the party was allowed to vote how they liked.. There have been rumours that this might not be the case, including rumours that left platform will split off as a separate party.

edit: took my numbers from skai tv...

I did hear rumours of reshuffles and such too.

 

[MochaSoul]

Doesn't this just mean that Greece will come back in three years asking for more money to pay off the bank loans and interest, but at that point won't have anything more to sell off so they can pay them?

I think so. I also think it's just postponing Greece's disorderly exit anyway

 

[trabant]

I did hear rumours of reshuffles and such too.

yeah, we'll see how it plays out. Time to go and have a drink.

 

[ska invita]

yeah, we'll see how it plays out. Time to go and have a drink.

cheers trabant

 

[MochaSoul]

yeah, we'll see how it plays out. Time to go and have a drink.

I've been on strong mocha coffees with more than just whiffs of brandy just listening to the Greek parliament defending the indefensible and/or blame gaming while children complained of burning eyes outside.

Cheers to you and you too ska invita

 

[J Ed]

Looks like Golden Dawn voted no.

 

[DotCommunist]

Doesn't this just mean that Greece will come back in three years asking for more money to pay off the bank loans and interest, but at that point won't have anything more to sell off so they can pay them?

they want to beggar greece so yes, thats what will happen. Limping on in misery till they need another loan to service interest on existing loans. This isn't just financial games is it? There's people who will die out of this. People who could have had bright futures shuffled into earning whatever feeds the kids, be it a pittance or otherwise.

and those able to do so will be leaving to go earn money to send home. Its a fucking joke, the IMF said it won't work. The IMF! the least sympathetic bank in the known world, destroyer of social safety nets, despoiler of mixed economies. Even them lot are calling madness on this.

 

[phildwyer]

Perhaps, from a pragmatic viewpoint, Greece would do better either with a centrist government of national unity which can negotiate from a position of trust, or with a rightist faction prepared to contemplate repudiation and Grexit. Tsipras is about the worst that they can have.

It's immoral to approach the Greek crisis from a pragmatic perspective. This is a matter of principle.

 

[phildwyer]

Doesn't this just mean that Greece will come back in three years asking for more money to pay off the bank loans and interest, but at that point won't have anything more to sell off so they can pay them?

Yes. That would appear to be the plan. Highly pragmatic for the beneficiaries.

 

[phildwyer]

and those able to do so will be leaving to go earn money to send home.

And many of the brightest and best of the Greek population will end up in Germany. Just a coincidence?