Greek elections

[ManchesterBeth]

Given some of his other posts im not too sure

Proletarian islam. You might have been able to convince Marxist-Leninists in the 1970s in şanlıurfa (where I am residing atm) with its state-enforced capitalised peasantry - and the need to realise socialism, but under the directives of Islam, as many Stalinists and Maoists were persuaded by the usorious world system philosophy. Sadly as Charlie and later Alfa tells us to conceive of peasant revolution having anything to do with the abolition of commodity production, the market and the law of value is sheer Islamo-Trotskyist idealism!

 

[ManchesterBeth]

Speaking of which:

The International Pan Islamic Communist Party of Proletarian Islam

The Ataturk article is especially risible. He, the bolshevik leadership (Trotsky and Zinoviev) and later Stalin utterly destroyed hope of a left communist tradition (specifically critical of national liberation) arising in Turkey and the East.

This is parody, surely? I just don't understand the point of it.

Today is the 134th anniversary of the Birth of Basbug Mustafa Kemal Ataturk the Leader of The Islamic Turkish Revolution and the Turkish War of Independence Mustafa Kemal Ataturk and his Army were able to lead the Turkish masses to victory and defeat the forces of the Greek chauvinist s and their Western Imperialist Allies and in the process Ataturk and his Revolution forces were also able to roll back Greek expansionism. and its plans to create an neo Byzantine empire in Western Asian Region of the Pan Islamic Homeland due to their defeat in Asia Minor The Greek Neo Byzantine chauvinists were unable to expand their reactionary program into The Arab countries to the south and The Arab countries were able to later become independent from Western colonialism and imperialism. Mustafa Kemal Ataturk was to become a great ideological inspiration to Arab Nationalism and the great revolutionary forerunners and forefathers of Proletarian Islam. such as the great Gamal Abdel Nasser of Egypt and Brother Leader Muammar Gaddafi of Islamic Socialist Green Libya. and The Moorish Nationalist movement within the United States that was led by Noble Drew Ali. Basbug Ataturk was to go on and establish a government in Turkey based on Nationalism and an enlighten version of Islam and today modern-day Turkey needs an Revolutionary synthesis of Islam and Pan Turkic Nationalism as well as Socialism it is the destiny The Republic of Turkey to reunite and reunify The Turkic and Turanian Race. but in order for Turkey to carry this out if must first become an Islamic Socialist State based on the Ideology of Proletarian Islam. Basbug Ataturk laid the material foundation for this to one day take place and Turkey shall indeed be an Islamic Socialist Proletarian Islamic State one day. working for the higher goal of Pan Turkism and the Global Proletarian Islamic Socialist World Revolution.
The International Pan Islamic Communist Party of Proletarian Islam can be contacted at proletarianislam@yahoo.com

 

[CNT36]

Given some of his other posts im not too sure

If only there was some kind of modern parallel.

 

[MochaSoul]

Paul Mason talking of changes in Greeks attitudes to Europe.
"I'd like to say I feel ashamed to be European".

 

[phildwyer]

Wtf?

Even leaving out the morality hitler was a huge threat to stability of europe, he was invading countries left right and centre and stirring up nationalism in the german community across europe. What choice did the british state and capital realistically have?

I'm not saying it was right but how was ignoring the threat hitler posed and letting the german army march into anywhere they liked, disrupting supplies to britain and the british economy, "pragmatic" from the state's point of view?

Actually this explains a lot about your view of ISIS...

Frogwoman, you're not really this daft are you?

I note that two of the people who liked your post have a first language other than English, so they can be excused. And the other is an idiot teenager, so we can allow him some leeway too. But what's up with you?

 

[MochaSoul]

Frogwoman, you're not really this daft are you?

I note that two of the people who liked your post have a first language other than English, so they can be excused. And the other is an idiot teenager, so we can allow him some leeway too. But what's up with you?

Why be half patronising when you can go all of the way?

 

[phildwyer]

Why be half patronising when you can go all of the way?

It's just that it can take foreigners a while to appreciate the idiomatic nuances of British prose, especially the irony, even when their grammar and vocabulary are as close to perfect as your own.

 

[MochaSoul]

It's just that it can take foreigners a while to appreciate the idiomatic nuances of British prose, especially the irony, even when their grammar and vocabulary are as close to perfect as your own.

Oh, so you're saying you were being facetious or flippant then. Perhaps it's not an issue of idiomatic nuance or British prose but the simple fact that "words on a screen" by people one doesn't really know are prone to be misinterpreted.

 

[phildwyer]

Oh, so you're saying you were being facetious or flippant then.

Not exactly. I was making a serious point, but in an ironic manner.

Perhaps it's not an issue of idiomatic nuance or British prose but the simple fact that "words on a screen" by people one doesn't really know are prone to be misinterpreted.

Up to a point. But I have found that British people tend to employ irony to an extent and in a manner that foreigners very often miss. The thing to remember is that they very rarely take themselves seriously, and that this is especially true when they appear to be taking themselves most seriously.

The British certainly have their faults--drunkenness, violence, arrogance, ignorance, parochialism, sentimentality, nationalism, selfishness, aggression, miserliness, rudeness, prudishness, laziness and above all physical ugliness--but their sense of humor is unique and, in my opinion, uniquely appealing.

 

[Lancman]

I say, that's a bit strong old chap.

 

[butchersapron]

Possibly useful reader/timeline for those wanting the outside and against perspective - no new texts but some here may not have been aware of them (terrible misuse of a Machiavelli quote in the intro though):

Greece: 2008 – the present

The current debt crisis tends to be seen purely within the terms of economics and politics in its most obviously conventional forms. Even by those opposed to SYRIZA and the state. But one of the factors in the brutal punishment of the Greek proletariat which is rarely talked about is to wipe out the memory of what happened almost 7 years ago, to show the world that rising up against the economy and its state will inevitably lead to terrible unending hardship. Of course, the only “inevitability” comes from the fact that the movement in Greece had an insufficient influence on proletarians in other countries – it didn’t subsequently inspire a worldwide movement capable of subverting the world of wage labour and commodity production. Nor did this movement, generally speaking, lead to a subversion of the world of work within Greece – workers hardly came out on strike and Leftist ideology and control of the more traditional forms of class struggle ensured that the movement remained largely outside of the world of work (though one could add that many anarchists and other anti-authoritarians had no interest in making connections with workers in their work situation).

***

The following is a list of texts that deal firstly with the uprising of December 2008 and subsequent movements, leading up to the recent spectacle of the referendum and the complete and utter acquiescence of the SYRIZA government. It’s a bit of a lazy method on my part – so far, I have no synthesis to make of all this. Rather, for the moment all I’m doing is providing people reading this with the facts and analysis that could help towards an understanding of the situation that could help future movements, but I’ve only done so mainly by linking to texts and newspaper articles. Hopefully, this will help the reader to do their own research.

 

[brogdale]

Autumn...reportedly.

 

[butchersapron]

How Goldman Sachs Profited From the Greek Debt Crisis

The investment bank made millions by helping to hide the true extent of the debt, and in the process almost doubled it.

(bit of a shonky use of 'the debt' in the above, but...)

 

[brogdale]

How Goldman Sachs Profited From the Greek Debt Crisis

The investment bank made millions by helping to hide the true extent of the debt, and in the process almost doubled it.

(bit of a shonky use of 'the debt' in the above, but...)

...while Goldman Sachs was helping Greece hide its debt from the official statistics, it was also hedging its bets through buying insurance on Greek debt as well as using other derivatives trades to protect itself against a potential Greek default on its debt. So while Goldman Sachs engaged in long-term trades with Greek debt (meaning Greece would owe Goldman Sachs a great deal down the line), the firm simultaneously was betting against Greek debt in the short-term, profiting from the Greek debt crisis that it helped create.

Well done Mario.

 

[teqniq]

How Goldman Sachs Profited From the Greek Debt Crisis

The investment bank made millions by helping to hide the true extent of the debt, and in the process almost doubled it.

(bit of a shonky use of 'the debt' in the above, but...)

Yes the Vampire squid should be facing criminal charges over this and quite probably many other things but I won't be holding my breath.

 

[trabant]

Possibly useful reader/timeline for those wanting the outside and against perspective - no new texts but some here may not have been aware of them (terrible misuse of a Machiavelli quote in the intro though):

Greece: 2008 – the present

A pretty good collection from March 2013 onwards. It should be noted that the timeline starts after the police started a campaign to evict squats/occupations, around 40 were hit in the end. This was a huge defeat and things dipped a bit after that.

A few big events off the top of my head before 2013 (not including the 2008 riots..):

Fascist attacks and af counter-attacks - March 2009
Anti-austerity march/strike (Marfin Bank) - May 2010
Keratea anti-landfill protests ~ Dec 2010
"I won't pay" movement ~ beginning of 2011
Syntagma Square occupation ~ May-June 2011
Big protest against austerity ~Feb 2012
Occupation of Government buildings ~ Jan 2013

 

[Libertad]

Possibly useful reader/timeline for those wanting the outside and against perspective - no new texts but some here may not have been aware of them (terrible misuse of a Machiavelli quote in the intro though):

Greece: 2008 – the present

The current debt crisis tends to be seen purely within the terms of economics and politics in its most obviously conventional forms. Even by those opposed to SYRIZA and the state. But one of the factors in the brutal punishment of the Greek proletariat which is rarely talked about is to wipe out the memory of what happened almost 7 years ago, to show the world that rising up against the economy and its state will inevitably lead to terrible unending hardship. Of course, the only “inevitability” comes from the fact that the movement in Greece had an insufficient influence on proletarians in other countries – it didn’t subsequently inspire a worldwide movement capable of subverting the world of wage labour and commodity production. Nor did this movement, generally speaking, lead to a subversion of the world of work within Greece – workers hardly came out on strike and Leftist ideology and control of the more traditional forms of class struggle ensured that the movement remained largely outside of the world of work (though one could add that many anarchists and other anti-authoritarians had no interest in making connections with workers in their work situation).

***

The following is a list of texts that deal firstly with the uprising of December 2008 and subsequent movements, leading up to the recent spectacle of the referendum and the complete and utter acquiescence of the SYRIZA government. It’s a bit of a lazy method on my part – so far, I have no synthesis to make of all this. Rather, for the moment all I’m doing is providing people reading this with the facts and analysis that could help towards an understanding of the situation that could help future movements, but I’ve only done so mainly by linking to texts and newspaper articles. Hopefully, this will help the reader to do their own research.

Great resource there. Thanks for that.

 

[gimesumtruf]

All western leaders seem to do the opposite of what i think is the right thing to do, am I in Orwells dystopia and haven't realised it?

 

[Libertad]

All western leaders seem to do the opposite of what i think is the right thing to do, am I in Orwells dystopia and haven't realised it?

Most certainly.

 

[trabant]

Bridging loan agreed. Hilarious that the pocket change left is held back.

 

[phildwyer]

How Goldman Sachs Profited From the Greek Debt Crisis

The investment bank made millions by helping to hide the true extent of the debt, and in the process almost doubled it.

Well, what do you expect them to do? They're usurers, they do usury. In fact "they" is the wrong term, because it humanizes what is actually the super- or maybe sub- but in any case non-human power of capital.

 

[Fedayn]

From Craig Mcvefas on twitter. @CraigMcVegas

Lapavitsas: plan contains
1) default ("the weapon of the poor"),
2) nationalisation of banks,
3) banks continue capital controls, properly
4) conversion of stocks,
5) organise supply of oil/medicine/food,
6) decide how to operate stable devalued exchange rate.

 

[belboid]

From Craig Mcvefas on twitter. @CraigMcVegas

Lapavitsas: plan contains
1) default ("the weapon of the poor"),
2) nationalisation of banks,
3) banks continue capital controls, properly
4) conversion of stocks,
5) organise supply of oil/medicine/food,
6) decide how to operate stable devalued exchange rate.

they should probably move 6 up to 1, but, otherwise, sound looking plan

 

[Fedayn]

they should probably move 6 up to 1, but, otherwise, sound looking plan

That twitter page us well worth a follow, he's at the meeting Lapavitsas spoke at.

 

[butchersapron]

From Craig Mcvefas on twitter. @CraigMcVegas

Lapavitsas: plan contains
1) default ("the weapon of the poor"),
2) nationalisation of banks,
3) banks continue capital controls, properly
4) conversion of stocks,
5) organise supply of oil/medicine/food,
6) decide how to operate stable devalued exchange rate.

they should probably move 6 up to 1, but, otherwise, sound looking plan

It's the same one he's been banging for months/years. (to make an irrelevant side point, the swp and their greek lot who i can't spell, started attacking this in the last week as left-nationalism.)

edit: or maybe not irrelevant giving the stuff that's going to happen now as regards non-syriza political formations.

 

[Fedayn]

I(to make an irrelevant side point, the swp and their greek lot who i can't spell, started attacking this in the last week as left-nationalism.).

Left nationalism in Greece = bad.... Bag carrying for left nationalism in Scotland = good, hiw very dialectical......

 

[belboid]

It's the same one he's been banging for months/years. (to make an irrelevant side point, the swp and their greek lot who i can't spell, started attacking this in the last week as left-nationalism.)

edit: or maybe not irrelevant giving the stuff that's going to happen now as regards non-syriza political formations.

6 is rather vaguer than his previous plans, perhaps he's gone off the idea of issuing a temporary scrip currency

 

[belboid]

That twitter page us well worth a follow, he's at the meeting Lapavitsas spoke at.

intriguing - "Lapavitsas livid. Tension in the room palpable. This is intense." - livid about what tho??!!

e2a: aah, the 'question of credibility', apparently

 

[Fedayn]

intriguing - "Lapavitsas livid. Tension in the room palpable. This is intense." - livid about what tho??!!

e2a: aah, the 'question of credibility', apparently

Apparently based on who are you, who voted for you etc. He made clear he topped the poll in his election. Bit petty but shows the 'hold' electoral politics has even in these events...

 

[trabant]

The Lapavitsas talk today at Democracy Rising 2015



edit: better link, the heated Q&A is not up yet though