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Greek elections

phildwyer said:
This whole affair has confirmed the uselessness of elections in the era of finance capital.
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You think so? Take a look at what happens in local government when it gets into finance. Neither clean nor pretty.
 
Bernie Gunther said:
Lapavitsas talking very clearly about how Greece just got screwed and what that means.



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The heckling is in the last 7-8 minutes or so. I don't think he deserved the little amount of abuse he received, he was visibly throughout the whole proceedings fucking pissed about the trajectory Syriza is currently going down.
 
Greebo said:
Unfortunately, financial incompetence and a lack of real democracy seem worse as you look closer, and that's probably true at all levels, so yes.
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It's nothing to do with financial incompetence.

What I mean is that, in the era of financial capitalism, the usurers can overturn a election result of which they disapprove at the flick of a switch. No need for colonels and tanks, just move some figures around on some screens and the people's will is overturned.
 
supposedly post-deal polling shows support for Syriza up (if you can trust a poll)
grafima_63.jpg


"70% wanted the deal compared to 24% against.
73% want to stay in the Euro while 20% prefer the drachma."

3rd hand info
 
Fedayn said:
Sadly however you miss the point I was making which, unsurprisingly, was not an attempt to legitimise electoralism.
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I didn't think it was. I thought you were criticizing the hold electoralism still has even over people like Lapavitsas, who really ought to have seen through it by now but apparently has not. I was concurring with you.
 
How does Greece move forward now? It shouldn't have gone into the Euro, but leaving the Euro now solves none of its short-to-medium term problems and creates some very serious ones. Perhaps a long-term plan for an orderly and less damaging exit unless by some miracle southern Europe achieves some sort of economic parity with northern Europe and trying to increase the pressure on its creditors for debt forgiveness?
 
I see Hollande wants a new Eurozone government and parliament so as to avoid another 'Greece' problem. It's not working so the answer is to have more of it. Jesus wept.:facepalm:
 
BandWagon said:
I see Hollande wants a new Eurozone government and parliament so as to avoid another 'Greece' problem. It's not working so the answer is to have more of it. Jesus wept.:facepalm:
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The EUro was always a one way ticket to a federal EUrope,no matter how much those that wanted UK to join denied it. Not sure how it would stop another Greece seing as Hollande is being vague and leaving it to his Prime Minister to talk of a vanguard of France, Germany, Italy, Belgium, Netherlands and Luxembourg to move to this EUrozone parliament, which would make the associate membership our referendum will most likely be fought on, a larger club, at least in the short term.
 
BandWagon said:
I see Hollande wants a new Eurozone government and parliament so as to avoid another 'Greece' problem. It's not working so the answer is to have more of it. Jesus wept.:facepalm:
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It's would be "working" just fine for capital, if pesky stuff like people didn't keep on objecting to it. If only people could be eliminated altogether, everything would be perfect.

That seriously is their logic.
 
jcsd said:
Perhaps a long-term plan for an orderly and less damaging exit...
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Yes (or medium-term - in a year, say).

However, unless recent humiliations have persuaded many people to change their minds, one big obstacle is that most Greeks don't want to leave the euro.
 
Not sure how true this is but posting it up anyway. I suppose the debate is whether Syriza would have had a mandate to do this or not, but good god if it is true they would be in a better position.

http://heardineurope.blogactiv.eu/2...-to-give-greece-e50-billion-to-quit-the-euro/

German Minister of Finance Wolfgang Schäuble was prepared “to give Greece €50 billion” had Yanis Varoufakis, his Greek counterpart at the time, agreed to his country leaving the eurozone, a high level source who recently spoke to Schäuble has revealed.

The German minister was described by the source like “a true European” who had nothing against Greece, but favoured harsh medicine for a good cause.

Schäuble was reported to assume that the leftist Syriza government would favour leaving the eurozone, a move consistent with its ideology. And he was prepared to put money on the table to encourage it to take this step.

Schäuble was quoted as asking how much Greece wants to leave the euro by France’s Mediapart. This is said to taken place before the 5 July referendum, in which a vast majority of Greeks rejected the international creditors’ proposals.

But according to the information obtained by Heard in Europe, Schäuble had in mind a concrete figure – €50 billion – had Syriza opted for Grexit.

Schäuble apparently didn’t say where the money would come from. Part of such a package could be sourced from the €35 billion of EU money due to Greece until 2020, plus ECB profits from Greek debt sovereign bonds due to Athens.
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J Ed said:
Not sure how true this is but posting it up anyway. I suppose the debate is whether Syriza would have had a mandate to do this or not, but good god if it is true they would be in a better position.

http://heardineurope.blogactiv.eu/2...-to-give-greece-e50-billion-to-quit-the-euro/
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This claim first appeared (I think) in the interview with an anonymous Greek adviser in mediapart that was floating about a couple of weeks ago -

There was no-one else but Varoufakis talking straight. Schäuble has said "How much money do you want [in order] to leave the euro?" He doesn't want Greece in the euro at all. He was the first to raise the issue of a Grexit back in 2011.
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