Greek elections

[agricola]

I think the existence of the EU makes this less likely.

Had I not read those four pages of demands, I would agree with you. If they are going to go around trying to do that, what are they going to do when someone tells them to get lost?

 

[frogwoman]

Well if you want to make that reference then there has been a European war already in frogwoman's lifetime!

Somewhat different. Ukraine and yugoslavia were both civil wars or started out like that. We haven't seen a war that put large numbers of european countries against each other and i'm saying that the conditions for that may start to arise.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Well if you want to make that reference then there has been a European war already in frogwoman's lifetime!

I don't think this means war, fwiw. War of whom against whom? Greek civil war (again) would be the fear, but I don't think that will happen. Or perhaps I only hope it won't happen.

But that does nothing to excuse anything that the EU is doing right now.

 

[weltweit]

And this means there won't be war how??

The last two major European wars were broadly Germany V France, two countries that have been very much at the centre of the EU process, I think a war between them is very unlikely in your lifetime as things stand at the moment.

 

[Lurdan]

Well if you want to make that reference then there has been a European war already in frogwoman's lifetime!

Quite a large one in my parents lifetime. When I was born there was still rationing so I guess I should be grateful they resisted the temptation to engage in cannibalism

 

[frogwoman]

I don't think this means war, fwiw. War of whom against whom? Greek civil war (again) would be the fear, but I don't think that will happen. Or perhaps I only hope it won't happen.

But that does nothing to excuse anything that the EU is doing right now.

I don't think it will happen right now either, but i think if they carry on like this the seeds of it will be sown.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

You're right - I've not got the time nor energy to respond to one bonkers theory after another and patiently explain why it won't work, only for you to cut n paste another one.

Except I've not been theoretical. I've given you historical examples of countries that have left a currency/peg and recovered because of it. I've given you actually existing examples of countries that issue their own currency and don't require physical cash. You're 'patient explanations' have so far not stood up to scrutiny.

 

[frogwoman]

The last two major European wars were broadly Germany V France, two countries that have been very much at the centre of the EU process, I think a war between them is very unlikely in your lifetime as things stand at the moment.

Who said it would be germany vs france? And that's bollocks anyway.

 

[Humberto]

Who said it would be germany vs france? And that's bollocks anyway.

The big will collude against the small, for their own interests. Different to the past.

 

[weltweit]

Who said it would be germany vs france? And that's bollocks anyway.

Well, we could argue that there is European war at the moment, in Ukraine.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

The big will collude against the small, for their own interests. Different to the past.

Well yes, hence my question war of whom against whom? But you don't need war to create misery. The EU are proving that.

 

[Kaka Tim]

fucking horrible behavior by the troika - jaw dropping. Maybe greece should take a leaf out of the zapatistas book and declare war on the EU.
Thinking about it - greece could easily close the shipping lanes - so not completely powerless.

 

[frogwoman]

Well, we could argue that there is European war at the moment, in Ukraine.

There is european war yes, but that isnt what i meant.

 

[happie chappie]

Except I've not been theoretical. I've given you historical examples of countries that have left a currency/peg and recovered because of it. I've given you actually existing examples of countries that issue their own currency and don't require physical cash. You're 'patient explanations' have so far not stood up to scrutiny.

No you haven't. You've cut n pasted stuff that you either don't understand or where the circumstances are so different as to make comparisons meaningless.

 

[Humberto]

Well yes, hence my question war of whom against whom? But you don't need war to create misery. The EU are proving that.

The difference being a global ruling class washing eachothers money, compared to rival ambitious monarchies and aristocracies of the past.

 

[agricola]

I don't think it will happen right now either, but i think if they carry on like this the seeds of it will be sown.

Perhaps. One would imagine that if this continues then a "No" vote in Cameron's referendum is guaranteed, though - how could anyone vote Yes?

 

[redsquirrel]

There has to be austerity, there has to be a coup, there is no alternative!

But don't get me wrong, I'm against austerity.

 

[happie chappie]

There has to be austerity, there has to be a coup, there is no alternative!

But don't get me wrong, I'm against austerity.

We're not taking about what I want - it's what a think will happen.

That's all.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

No you haven't. You've cut n pasted stuff that you either don't understand or where the circumstances are so different as to make comparisons meaningless.

I've not 'cut-n-pasted', I've quoted sources in support of my arguments. Unlike yourself, who is big on talk but has not said anything to address the points I've made.

 

[gawkrodger]

The Press Project has done some digging on the Luxembourg "Institution for Growth" to which the 4-page eurogroup paper demands that €50bn of Greek state property must be transferred. Guess what. This Luxembourg "institution" is wholly owned subsidiary of German KfW and the chairman of its board is a certain Wolfgang Schäuble.

Full marks for chutzpah.

What's the (English) source for these? That's mental if true

 

[MochaSoul]

What's the (English) source for these? That's mental if true

Not just Schauble... guess who else?
http://www.bundesfinanzministerium....-17-schaeuble-in-athens.html?view=renderPrint

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

#ThisIsACoup is trending. Lets keep it that way.

 

[redsquirrel]

I've not 'cut-n-pasted', I've quoted sources in support of my arguments. Unlike yourself, who is big on talk but has not said anything to address the points I've made.

But like Syriza you're so ideological CE. Not like that nice, neutral, happie chappie, no ideology about him at all, no siree.

 

[gawkrodger]

Not just Schauble... guess who else?
http://www.bundesfinanzministerium....-17-schaeuble-in-athens.html?view=renderPrint

The Granuiad is reporting it now

 

[happie chappie]

I've not 'cut-n-pasted', I've quoted sources in support of my arguments. Unlike yourself, who is big on talk but has not said anything to address the points I've made.

I have already addressed your points - the most bonkers being getting Geek business to pay taxes in Drachmas.

This shows you have a very limited understanding of economics. Just quoting sources are not even bothering to think what the potential flaws in their arguments might be is plainly stupid.

Do you actually know the difference between a currency union and pegging by the way?

I hope you do as I'm certainly not going to explain it to you.

 

[Lurdan]

What's the (English) source for these? That's mental if true

Guardian live blog (it was flagged up by a BTL comment but the Guardian have added some links).

Link to item

 

[agricola]

What's the (English) source for these? That's mental if true

Some info.

Perhaps "wholly owned subsidiary" is wide of the mark, but their use as a clearing-house for Greek national assets does raise serious issues.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

I have already addressed your points - the most bonkers being getting Geek business to pay taxes in Drachmas.

What? You fucking serious? You realise that is what every sovereign nation in the whole fucking world since forever has done, don't you?

This shows you have a very limited understanding of economics.

Let me guess, you did Econ101 at 'uni'?

Just quoting sources are not even bothering to think what the potential flaws in their arguments might be is plainly stupid.

Just saying things won't work and then ignoring examples of when they have worked, is plainly arrogant.

Do you actually know the difference between a currency union and pegging is by the way?

Yes. Do you know the reason why a currency union is comparable to both a peg and a gold standard in the current situation?

 

[MochaSoul]

#ThisIsACoup

 

[happie chappie]

What? You fucking serious? You realise that is what every sovereign nation in the whole fucking world since forever has done, don't you?



Let me guess, you did Econ101 at 'uni'?



Just saying things won't work and then ignoring examples of when they have worked, is plainly arrogant.



Yes. Do you know the reason why a currency union is comparable to both a peg and a gold standard in the current situation?

I give up.