butchersapron
Bring back hanging
The politicians have spoken - as if all the public space is theirs - how will that space opened up last week be filled? It was half filled by people having to carry on not to starve already.
Greek elections
- Thread starter ska invita
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Pardon?
But the poınt to remember ıs what money represents--whıch ıs to say what ıt actually ıs. Money ıs alıenated labor power, ıt ıs human actıvıty ın objectıfıed form.
Despıte the baffled ıncredulıty of Spackle Frog and hıs dımwıtted ılk, that unalterable fact should gıve us hope that the entıre charade of fınance can be exposed as a paper tıger.
Kıssınger's as German as they come.
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
Doug Henwood's latest podcast discusses Greece, starts talking about position of Golden Dawn from about 23 minutes in
Rest of it is worth a listen as well.
Rest of it is worth a listen as well.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Doug henwood is always worth listening to even with boring idiot guests - but get a good guest, like Adolph Reed, and you get some real brain thinking,
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
I think that's naive - there will be at least some who don't see Syriza as a credible defender of Greece against the Troika who will look in that direction.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
The 6% who voted for them already? Plus how many people do you see just jumping ship from the syriza based anti-austerity coalition - one based on explicit rejection of GD style anti-austerity - to a total shift in their beliefs in a few weeks? Add GD +ANEL entire and you still haven't got 1933. And if the deep state elements think they can take over after the clear rejection of them and their way last week by an anti-fascist coalition, then they're wrong.
There's a tendency on the left to model current events and expectations on the past - this doesn't even fit into weimar. Where was the KPD-SPD govt in genrmany that failed and opened the path for the nazis? (Not to you, to people making this lazy comparison).
A blog post from the IMF, predictable but quite interesting:
http://blog-imfdirect.imf.org/2015/07/09/greece-past-critiques-and-the-path-forward/
This is a part of Varoufakis' piece today - essentially Grexit isn't feasible in the short term, he says:
"To exit (the euro), we would have to create a new currency from scratch. In occupied Iraq, the introduction of new paper money took almost a year, 20 or so Boeing 747s, the mobilisation of the US military’s might, three printing firms and hundreds of trucks. In the absence of such support, Grexit would be the equivalent of announcing a large devaluation more than 18 months in advance: a recipe for liquidating all Greek capital stock and transferring it abroad by any means available."
http://blog-imfdirect.imf.org/2015/07/09/greece-past-critiques-and-the-path-forward/
This is a part of Varoufakis' piece today - essentially Grexit isn't feasible in the short term, he says:
"To exit (the euro), we would have to create a new currency from scratch. In occupied Iraq, the introduction of new paper money took almost a year, 20 or so Boeing 747s, the mobilisation of the US military’s might, three printing firms and hundreds of trucks. In the absence of such support, Grexit would be the equivalent of announcing a large devaluation more than 18 months in advance: a recipe for liquidating all Greek capital stock and transferring it abroad by any means available."
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Who is interested in this sell out/noble hero narrative? I can't see anyone on here other than you - i can see people trying to point out the wider context (creditors as the citizens) to you but you thinking it's still the 60s.Not yet, I need to get my Liz 4 Life 2015 tattoo finished first.
Have you pierced your nob with a hand woven fair-trade craft stud yet?
What do you say to Varoufakis' assertion about a `Grexit` above? Or is he another sell-out?
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ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
Not yet, I need to get my Liz 4 Life 2015 tattoo finished first.
Have you pierced your nob with a hand woven fair-trade craft stud yet?
What do you say to Varoufakis' assertion about a `Grexit` above? Or is he another sell-out?
Varoufakis has always been opposed to leaving the Euro. Here he is talking about that very issue (from 37m34 onwards).
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
That is a daft example to come up with, though. For a start, Greece isnt in the position that Iraq was when they did that - ie ruled by a bunch of incompetents who were trying to build a state from scratch whilst also trying to line their own pockets and under a military occupation at the same time.
What it means - why i stuck it up there - is that Syriza doesn't appear to have prepared/could not prepare for an exit from the Euro. It's not `an example` of anything. Just a bit of info. And not a very positive one imo. Maybe it isn't accurate and Syriza has prepared, I hope that is the case.
I think everyone on here who said Syriza `folded` `why did they hold the referendum` `they backed down` etc has been saying just that. I don't know what these politicians are like and I don't care that much. But from what they say now - that's all the info i have to go on - they don't/didn't have any choices.
The general `narrative`has been they have choices, stay or leave the euro.
But from this it appears there is no euro-exit possible in the short term, even if it is desirable. So all the ideas of `capitulation` and `folding` (and your `narrative` you read into my posts) aren't relevant.
Like Lapavistas said in his tweet right. That now Syriza has to begin to prepare to leave the Euro.
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SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
Of course it's bloody silly to compare this to 1933 and I appreciate it winds you up that others are doing it. But surely you're not saying that this doesn't at least present an opportunity for GD to gain support?
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Left Platform proposals - http://greece.greekreporter.com/201...ps-to-support-proposals/#sthash.FRcqtC5i.dpuf
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I wish i had a kalashnikov.
The Tsolakoglou government has annihilated all traces for my survival, which was based on a very dignified pension that I alone paid for 35 years with no help from the state. And since my advanced age does not allow me a way of dynamically reacting (although if a fellow Greek were to grab a Kalashnikov, I would be right behind him), I see no other solution than this dignified end to my life, so I don’t find myself fishing through garbage cans for my sustenance. I believe that young people with no future, will one day take up arms and hang the traitors of this country at Syntagma square, just like the Italians did to Mussolini in 1945
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
**
Maurice Picarda
Actually, might as well flounce.
Interesting reports that the Finns are blocking a deal; the Hattifattener/Moomin coalition will collapse unless there's a line so tough that it essentially means Grexit.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
All a joke. Cunt.
gimesumtruf
pedant fodder
It's hard watching history unfold. The only good, rather like the Ukraine thread, I can cry and you can't see me.
Maurice Picarda
Actually, might as well flounce.
This is a meeting of finance ministers. What they are worried about is how their decision will play with their electorates. They aren't technocrats, more's the pity.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
With their bond-holders maybe, but certainly not their electorates.
Maurice Picarda
Actually, might as well flounce.
Certainly a strong consideration - and very germane to the divided nationalistic interests which you were pretending weren't relevant.
