Go on... rape her... she won't report it... [UniLad magazine article]

[emanymton]

Am I the only one who thinks the name Climax Promotions sounds dodgy to begin with?

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

It's not about censorship, shippy. Being allowed to say something doesn't mean you should.

that is of course a fine thing to have as a personal perspective but when it comes to a societies perspective social mores are sometimes as restrictive as censorship

i'm not saying this was right

this example was fairly putrid and the producers of it were right to formally apologise.

but i think the expression of this thought and then the public apology is more healthy than an underground scene where this kinda thing is vouge

 

[ddraig]

Am I the only one who thinks the name Climax Promotions sounds dodgy to begin with?

ai but it is an outfit that does nights at student unions

 

[Santino]

but i think the expression of this thought and then the public apology is more healthy than an underground scene where this kinda thing is vouge

Upon what basis do you make this claim?

 

[butchersapron]

that is of course a fine thing to have as a personal perspective but when it comes to a societies perspective social mores are sometimes as restrictive as censorship

i'm not saying this was right

this example was fairly putrid and the producers of it were right to formally apologise.

but i think the expression of this thought and then the public apology is more healthy than an underground scene where this kinda thing is vouge

An underground scene of public displays of grossly immature and insensitive displays? How's that going to work then?

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

my understanding of both history and human nature.

i am intrested in hearing about peer reviewed journals that discuss this however

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

An underground scene of public displays of grossly immature and insensitive displays? How's that going to work then?

sounds like most uni campuses

and most pubs

and well most social gatherings

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

i'm sorry that was far too cynical


not most social gathering. just a significant subset

 

[Idris2002]

sounds like most uni campuses

and most pubs

and well most social gatherings

You need to find better RL friends, I think shippy.

As for the whole liberal idea that wankers will inevitably condemn themselves out of their own mouths, and so there's nothing to worry about - if only it were that simple.

Also, could the thread title be changed? I know it's typical LiamO shock tactics, but some of us are at work. . .

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

what is better

hearing about wankers or not hearing about wankers


or worring that everyone are wankers so you won't ever hear about them

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

also i have fine IRL freinds but i was also set on fire once in school

Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?

the person who saw someone look for a match

 

[Santino]

what is better

hearing about wankers or not hearing about wankers


or worring that everyone are wankers so you won't ever hear about them

What is better if you are a bigot or a rape apologist? Not feeling able to mention it, or being able to spot those who share your views and being pals with them?

Anyone can make up dichotomies.

 

[butchersapron]

sounds like most uni campuses

and most pubs

and well most social gatherings

I'm not talking about the telling of the joke among a relatively closed social circle, i'm on about what actually happened in this case - when the whole point of the thing was to be displayed in public to people who would not be expecting it by either context or basic decency (and without any idea on the part of the people who produced it what effect this may have on the people who did see it or understanding why). How is that going to work 'underground'?

 

[DotCommunist]

Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?

I do, i've been watching the bastards

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

look if you can give me a good reason why my feeling are wrong please do but so far i've not really seen arguments against my p[oints only dismissals of it.

i'm sorry if i missed the meeting where no platrom was argued and won but y'knkow thats going to be the case for most pweople

i get not agreeing with people shit on the internet that is 99% of the time but i don't get this kinda responce



i say as i do that kind of responce

 

[Citizen66]

There's a slight difference between telling a sick joke to a close mate who might appreciate such titillation and launching a club night advertised under a banner of said joke.

 

[butchersapron]

look if you can give me a good reason why my feeling are wrong please do but so far i've not really seen arguments against my p[oints only dismissals of it.

i'm sorry if i missed the meeting where no platrom was argued and won but y'knkow thats going to be the case for most pweople

i get not agreeing with people shit on the internet that is 99% of the time but i don't get this kinda responce



i say as i do that kind of responce

You have had at least two substantive responses to your post in the last few minutes. Firstly that that you provide no reasoning or evidence for your assertion that "i think the expression of this thought and then the public apology is more healthy than an underground scene where this kinda thing is vouge" and secondly that the situation that you assert will exist if the same thought is not expressed is impossible and that you don't seem to get the public element and potential impact of this - and by extension, of your ideal scenario. It was all there in those posts that you replied to. (I expect there was more last night but i've not looked yet).

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

I'm not talking about the telling of the joke among a relatively closed social circle, i'm on about what actually happened in this case - when the whole point of the thing was to be displayed in public to people who would not be expecting it by either context or basic decency (and without any idea on the part of the people who produced it what effect this may have on the people who did see it or understanding why). How is that going to work 'underground'?

i suppose it depends on what you consider underground

i'd have though most low level web pages and tiny run publications were kinda underground.


but i guess that is klinda beside the point

there are many p[ossible circumstances that might be encountered

is it

1. understood to be wrong and therefore not even considered
2. understood to be wrong but therefore only talked about in limited circumstances
3. not understood to be wrong and not really talked about that much
4. not understood to be wrong but commonly talked about

etc etc


genrally i feel having more information is better


and as i can't imagine a situation where every individual knows all the laws and rules or a situation where there is a a frame work that can actually address these thing i much prefer a culture of openly listening to ideas and then addressing them



also was the piece really published to an audience who " would not be expecting it by either context or basic decency"
or do you think it was pandering to a audience who are into this kinda stuff

i certainly think the p[ublishers thought the latter

and i kinda expect that they might be partially right

 

[killer b]

I'm not sure if I understand what your point is Shippy - are you suggesting that a university student union (or I guess any organisation) should allow anything, no matter how offensive on their promotional material, as long as the intended audience are unlikely to be offended?

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

You have had at least two substantive responses to your post in the last few minutes. Firstly that that you provide no reasoning or evidence for your assertion that "i think the expression of this thought and then the public apology is more healthy than an underground scene where this kinda thing is vouge" and secondly that the situation that you assert will exist if the same thought is not expressed is impossible and that you don't seem to get the public element and potential impact of this - and by extension, of your ideal scenario. It was all there in those posts that you replied to. (I expect there was more last night but i've not looked yet).

admittedly my reasoning is vague

most peoples take on a subject will not be on they have formed by sitting down and hypothesising on a thought and then researching it's basis. it will only be a preposition they have come to from after experiencing the world and hopefully considering that experience.

when engaged in a discussion they will then put forward their opinions

other people will also put forward theirs

most people will not put forward an in depth reasoning for this perspective. case in point I've not really seen that on this thread not that i have really been paying that much attention to it



i would say i do not expect people to give this reasoning. this is not the right platform for this. i am not trying to perfectly express the mechanics of a situation i am mearly throwing in my two bits to a discussion.



i'm not sure what you mean by "secondly that the situation that you assert will exist if the same thought is not expressed is impossible"

i do consider the impact of the two scenareios

it would take quite a bit of time for me to fully explain what my thoughts are and unfortunately i don't think i can be arsed to

i do have experience working with people {admittedly this is only with a small group of people (10-30 people)
} and seeing what happens with options expressed to a select few or to a wider group
normally i find that within a select group ideas even distasteful ideas are fostered as there is a group understanding that the opinions of your peers are worthy. if some one higher up simply decrees that you are wrong in my experiance that tends to build a resistance. open critisism and debate usually work better at defusing a situation and comming to a common understanding

yes the open expression of an idea can draw more followers to that idea it's certainly a situaton that happens

but if the majority of people oppose the idea the more exposure an idea gets the more opposition it gets (i hope)


we get into tricky situation when a significat proporion of the population belive in something



that is a rought and poorly formed epression of my thoughtd

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Surely there's more suitable subjects for a 'free expression' debate than an ad for a dodgy student disco (or any ad really). Now they've backed down I don't think they'll be sneaking around setting up underground 2 for 1 drinks nights so they can put out their obnoxious adverts freely.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

I'm not sure if I understand what your point is Shippy - are you suggesting that a university student union (or I guess any organisation) should allow anything, no matter how offensive on their promotional material, as long as the intended audience are unlikely to be offended?

no. nothing should be based on peoples expectation to be offended

there will always be somebody who will be offended by your position that's just human nature


all i'm saying is i think it's better if things are expressed and debated than censored by a higher power


i don't think there is ever a group that can decide 100% if an opinion is offensive of damaging.


i guess i'm very morally relativistic therefore i think that opinions can only be formed through debate

proper debate is stifled by censorship


i like platforms that allow for unothadox opinions to be debated. looks at stuff like urbans drug forum.

it's not quite the same as this this is prtiity fucking disgusting and should be rightly criticised and lambasted

i just worry about the downsides of a culture of censorship more than i worry about the uptake of abhorent ideals through publication

 

[butchersapron]

if this is the case then why since the early 90s have we seen a re-birth and growth of this laddy-sexist stuff, then since the early 2000s - and growing out of the previous development - a growth of rape-apologetics? Surely the opposite should be happening right, it's appearance should have been met with widespread opposition and questions about where it came from, leading to it disappearing again. But we haven't, we've, in fact, witnessed the exact opposite, expressions of rape-apologetics legitimisng and normalising a wider culture in which it's taken for granted, to such an extent that this piece of shit could have been put out without a whole range of people even seeing a problem

 

[Sasaferrato]

Rape is a vile crime. I cannot even begin to imagine what it does to the psyche of the victim. One would imagine that the aftermath of the attack goes on for a long time. It isn't ever something that should be reduced to a joke.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

i simply don't know

i could be the rise of shock humor.

this could be considered the magazine version of something like jackass

known to be wrong but also considered OK as it is seen as i don't know tounge in cheek

that might be why it is more aceppted

my gut tells me it isn't more widespread just because editors are more lax


mind you my gut has just taken in a passed it sell by date redy meal so who can trust guts

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

Rape is a vile crime. I cannot even begin to imagine what it does to the psyche of the victim. One would imagine that the aftermath of the attack goes on for a long time. It isn't ever something that should be reduced to a joke.

is making some thing a joke trivalising something or underlining something#


bernard manning or goeorge carling are not the same


i think

 

[butchersapron]

It doesn't matter if they're not in your argument though does it? Your argument effectively treats them as if they were exactly the same. It has to.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

my opinion of their content is not the same as if i feel they should be allowed

it's a bit like the statement "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

admittedly one of my best friends does call me disgustingly relativistic

 

[butchersapron]

So you are forced to treat them exactly the same. Your opinion of the views expressed is neither here not there in that case.