Ghostbusters reboot

[Johnny Vodka]

What about the word "actor" makes it inherently male?

Only you and Gromit have used the word "actress" on this thread, by the way.

And your confusion about the objection in 2016 speaks volumes about you. More than the use of the word itself.

Is that addressed at me? Do you really think the average person has stopped using the word actress or would agree there's anything inherently wrong with it?

What's the difference between 'best male/female actor' and actor/actress? Both ways communicate the same information.

 

[kabbes]

Yes, it's addressed at you. Keep digging away there, maybe your misogynist promised land is more than 6 foot down.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

Yes, it's addressed at you. Keep digging away there, maybe your misogynist promised land is more than 6 foot down.

Do get a grip. I ask you, how many people do you know in real life that use the word actor over actress? How is using the term 'actress' misogynistic? I see both equal - just one describes a male and the other describes a female. You know, if I suddenly find a rash of people are offended by the term actress (and I remember), I'll start using actor instead. But, as I suspect is the case with most people, actress is lodged in the brain... and frankly I have far greater things to worry about.

 

[Sea Star]

"Actress"

this should be in that other thread - things that make you feel old. anyone who uses this word deserves to feel old!

 

[Vintage Paw]

Is that addressed at me? Do you really think the average person has stopped using the word actress or would agree there's anything inherently wrong with it?

What's the difference between 'best male/female actor' and actor/actress? Both ways communicate the same information.

If you think there's no difference between actor/actress and male actor/female actor, then why would you care if people who do think there's a difference ask you to use one over the other?

Unless you have a different agenda, of course.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

this should be in that other thread - things that make you feel old. anyone who uses this word deserves to feel old!

If it's any consolation, I feel somewhat old.

 

[Vintage Paw]

Do get a grip. I ask you, how many people do you know in real life that use the word actor over actress? How is using the term 'actress' misogynistic? I see both equal - just one describes a male and the other describes a female. You know, if I suddenly find a rash of people are offended by the term actress (and I remember), I'll start using actor instead. But, as I suspect is the case with most people, actress is lodged in the brain... and frankly I have far greater things to worry about.

I hear lots of older people still say "darkie" ... I guess that's okay though because there are far greater things to worry about.

 

[Sea Star]

I hear lots of older people still say "darkie" ... I guess that's okay though because there are far greater things to worry about.

i can think of a word beginning with 't' that most people seem to think its OK to use too.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

If you think there's no difference between actor/actress and male actor/female actor, then why would you care if people who do think there's a difference ask you to use one over the other?

Unless you have a different agenda, of course.

Why should I bend my language to suit other people's whims? Actress, as far as I know, is still a perfectly acceptable and understandable term for most people. As I said, actress just comes naturally to me when talking about female actors. Hence, for the time being, I shall continue to use it. (It's also less words, innit?)

 

[Johnny Vodka]

I hear lots of older people still say "darkie" ... I guess that's okay though because there are far greater things to worry about.

Oh, please! Hardly comparable.

 

[Vintage Paw]

You're misunderstanding how language works, JV.

It evolves at different rates. Sometimes quite quickly, sometimes quite slowly.

The thing with actor - many made a conscious decision to use that, but of course there was no national memo sent out to 60million people. It becomes normalised over time, as people hear it being said on television, read it in newspapers, etc. If it still hasn't filtered through to some people yet, that's quite usual.

However, once you have been made aware of the change, there is no good reason not to take that on board. Apart from if there is an agenda. A spitefulness perhaps? An inner misogyny? A battle for power?

 

[Johnny Vodka]

However, once you have been made aware of the change, there is no good reason not to take that on board. Apart from if there is an agenda. A spitefulness perhaps? An inner misogyny? A battle for power?

If I thought there was any less value in an actress than an actor, you'd have a point; but I don't. So it's unusual for a job title to specify a person's gender, but I don't see anything inherently wrong with it. 'Actress' doesn't really have the history of abuse 'darkie' has, does it?

 

[Vintage Paw]

There's only so long you can continue to mask the reasons for the things you do and say, JV.

You try so hard to dance around these issues, claiming you're coming from one position or another, to avoid any and all association that might paint you as misogynist.

And yet, it's always about these exact issues. You turn up like a bad penny on every thread that has anything to do with women, sexism, feminism. You always try and argue against feminist positions, but without admitting an anti-feminist agenda. And yet, here you are, again and again, drawn like a fly to shit.

If you weren't a misogynist, if you weren't sexist, if you weren't anti-feminist... you simply wouldn't be here taking part in these threads.

 

[Vintage Paw]

If I thought there was any less value in an actress than an actor, you'd have a point; but I don't. So it's unusual for a job title to specify a person's gender, but I don't see anything inherently wrong with it. 'Actress' doesn't really have the history of abuse 'darkie' has, does it?

It's all about you again, isn't it.

You can be told something is offensive by a woman or multiple women (whatever it might be, not necessarily actress - you've got form here) and you simply don't care because you, the great all rational man, don't see a problem with it so the women must be wrong and you must be right.

When we look to solve oppression, we ask those who are oppressed how they are oppressed. They're the ones who experience it every day. Why on earth would the people who don't experience it be the ones best placed to decide what that oppression actually was?

(Again, I reiterate this isn't just about actress - I'm speaking more widely about your general outlook re: being a massive sexist cunt.)

 

[Johnny Vodka]

So anyone who uses the term 'actress' is a misogynist? You're right about there being a power struggle of sorts - what I definitely don't agree with is being expected to change my language on the whim of maybe 1% of people when any suggestion of offence isn't backed up with good reason. Imagine I told you to replace word x with word y, just because I should. You'd rightly tell me to fuck off. People don't appreciate that sort of policing.

Anyway, no offence, but I can't really be arsed arguing this point any longer.

 

[Vintage Paw]

Not everyone. You're a misogynist, yes.

I'm hardly surprised you won't engage with anything else I've written. I suspect it's because you don't have a leg to stand on.

Fuckity bye.

 

[krtek a houby]

Do get a grip. I ask you, how many people do you know in real life that use the word actor over actress? How is using the term 'actress' misogynistic? I see both equal - just one describes a male and the other describes a female. You know, if I suddenly find a rash of people are offended by the term actress (and I remember), I'll start using actor instead. But, as I suspect is the case with most people, actress is lodged in the brain... and frankly I have far greater things to worry about.

Most people I know use the term "actress". That's not to say it's not outdated and incorrect but if I try and correct them they usually look at me as if I'm mad.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

You're a misogynist, yes.

Nope. A misogynist hates women. I do not. Not agreeing with every feminist idea you have doesn't make me a misogynist.

If you want to talk about language, a first step might be not to overuse the term 'misogynist' - because that actually is offensive.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

Most people I know use the term "actress". That's not to say it's not outdated and incorrect but if I try and correct them they usually look at me as if I'm mad.

Who decides it's outdated and incorrect?

 

[Vintage Paw]

Nope. A misogynist hates women. I do not. Not agreeing with every feminist idea you have doesn't make me a misogynist.

If you want to talk about language, a first step might be not to overuse the term 'misogynist' - because that actually is offensive.

HAHAHAHAHAHA.

Misogynist fuckwit. Everyone knows it. Fool yourself all you like. Maybe you think you're playing a clever game. You're not. You're transparent. There's a reason everyone comments on your arrival in feminism/women-based threads. We all know to expect it. You're right and women are wrong. All the careful and considered explanations about why X is offensive and why Y needs to be challenged falls on deaf ears because you don't care one jot what women have to say about anything - you care about being able to assert your own power and vision of life over women. You fool not a single person.

 

[krtek a houby]

Who decides it's outdated and incorrect?

Language being in a constant state of flux, the times we live in - people. Of course; not everyone adapts to the ongoing changes. I know plenty of people who use terminology like "coloured" & "half caste", "tranny" and so on. And most of them would be genuinely horrified if you told them they are offensive.

 

[Vintage Paw]

Language being in a constant state of flux, the times we live in - people. Of course; not everyone adapts to the ongoing changes. I know plenty of people who use terminology like "coloured" & "half caste", "tranny" and so on. And most of them would be genuinely horrified if you told them they are offensive.

It's a complex matter. Most people are genuinely sensitive to the offence they might cause when told about it. Unless they're geared up for hate - which I believe is a minority of people.

My dear departed nana, she used to whisper "darkie" - she knew it wasn't quite the right word to say, but she hadn't really worked out what else to say, and she'd grown up saying that.

She had a cat, called Blackie.

A black family moved in next door.

She instantly changed the cat's name to Suzie. She was mortified at the thought of standing on the back door step shouting "Blackie!" to get the cat in

Now, that's a cute, funny story. But it shows how language is complex. She knew "darkie" wasn't quite right, just as she knew saying "Blackie" would cause offence. She changed one immediately, but never quite managed to change the other. The difference was that she wouldn't say "darkie" to other people, outside, in public, etc. She knew it was wrong, but it still held a place in her language, and it never quite shifted. But she could also never bring herself to knowingly cause offence to people.

That's what I find so hateful about JV's stance. He simply doesn't care if anything causes offence to people because he'll be the one to decide what he does and says thank you very much, and fuck anyone else.

It's nothing but hate and spite.

 

[kabbes]

Do get a grip. I ask you, how many people do you know in real life that use the word actor over actress? How is using the term 'actress' misogynistic? I see both equal - just one describes a male and the other describes a female. You know, if I suddenly find a rash of people are offended by the term actress (and I remember), I'll start using actor instead. But, as I suspect is the case with most people, actress is lodged in the brain... and frankly I have far greater things to worry about.

Using the term isn't inherently misogynistic. It's you that is misogynistic. And so you are drawn to terms that create segregation and reinforce power structures and you cling to them. It's what misogynists do.

 

[krtek a houby]

It's a complex matter. Most people are genuinely sensitive to the offence they might cause when told about it. Unless they're geared up for hate - which I believe is a minority of people.

My dear departed nana, she used to whisper "darkie" - she knew it wasn't quite the right word to say, but she hadn't really worked out what else to say, and she'd grown up saying that.

She had a cat, called Blackie.

A black family moved in next door.

She instantly changed the cat's name to Suzie. She was mortified at the thought of standing on the back door step shouting "Blackie!" to get the cat in

Now, that's a cute, funny story. But it shows how language is complex. She knew "darkie" wasn't quite right, just as she knew saying "Blackie" would cause offence. She changed one immediately, but never quite managed to change the other. The difference was that she wouldn't say "darkie" to other people, outside, in public, etc. She knew it was wrong, but it still held a place in her language, and it never quite shifted. But she could also never bring herself to knowingly cause offence to people.

That's what I find so hateful about JV's stance. He simply doesn't care if anything causes offence to people because he'll be the one to decide what he does and says thank you very much, and fuck anyone else.

It's nothing but hate and spite.

I don't know JV, so I can't say if it's mischief, trollery or just plain spite. I do know, as I said, people who say things that are, at the very least, archaic. But they don't mean any harm by it. Even though it's annoying to hear certain terms and phrases trotted out again and again. I also know people who when you politely point out they are being offensive, will continue to do so and invoke the "pc brigade" mantra. Or "it's a free country, I can say what I like" etc.

I do try to change their minds but there's those that won't be swayed. What can you do, though? As the tagline went; who ya gonna call?

 

[kabbes]

What can you do? Well for a start, you don't fucking ignore it. Or excuse it.

 

[krtek a houby]

What can you do? Well for a start, you don't fucking ignore it. Or excuse it.

Indeed. If it's said to/at me, or someone in my circle says something offensive, I point it out to them. I wouldn't excuse it but if you have someone using archaic terms all their life - they're hardly going to kick the habit at this stage. That's not to say there's no hope - my Mom has certainly mellowed with her terminology and outlook over the years. She still has a bit of a distance to go, mind.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

Language being in a constant state of flux, the times we live in - people. Of course; not everyone adapts to the ongoing changes. I know plenty of people who use terminology like "coloured" & "half caste", "tranny" and so on. And most of them would be genuinely horrified if you told them they are offensive.

Really, do you think actress is in the same league as these terms? When was 'actress' ever a term of abuse? When someone tells you not to do or say something, do you automatically oblige? Or do you consider their argument and make a personal call on whether you will change? Actress really isn't archaic - I'd almost bet more use actress for a female actor than actor, without any sexist intent or imagining it as a term that belittles women. Sorry, I'm not going to be bullied out of using what is still a perfectly mainstream and, to the vast majority, inoffensive term.

 

[Gromit]

Is that addressed at me? Do you really think the average person has stopped using the word actress or would agree there's anything inherently wrong with it?

What's the difference between 'best male/female actor' and actor/actress? Both ways communicate the same information.

Aw why did you bite?

Couldn't you see how much they were itching to have this argument with you?

You weren't replying but they still kept posting and posting towards your imagined response. Desperate to don their social justice warrior plumage.
So desperate it was whimsical

Now you've made their day giving them what they wanted.

 

[krtek a houby]

Really, do you think actress is in the same league as these terms? When was 'actress' ever a term of abuse? When someone tells you not to do or say something, do you automatically oblige?

Hi Johnny, I'm krtek and people tell me not to do or say stuff all the time

I wouldn't say it's a term of abuse - especially when compared to the other terms - but it is, let's say, ignorant, belittling, maybe when you consider that it's entering the realms of archaic. If we can have male and female nurses, doctors etc - why not actors?

Sorry, I'm not going to be bullied out of using what is still a perfectly mainstream and, to the vast majority, inoffensive term.

It is and it isn't. It just doesn't fit, anymore.

And if you ever meet an actor who happens to be female & refers to herself as an actor; I assume you'd do the same, no?

 

[Gromit]

In my opinion the only thing wrong with having actor and actress was that there was never acter to refer to both.

It's not like the word was actoress.

To be honest the only reason I didn't use actor in my post was because we were talking about s female only lead cast and you cunts would have implied I was saying swap women for men purely because I used the word actor instead of actress. I know what you cunts are like.