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You know a lot of train drivers have been off and maintaining their route qualifications by watching DVDs ?
So what. We are not seeing a spate of rail crashes due to drivers forgetting what they are doing, but planes are near enough falling out of the sky right left and centre. It's complete mayhem up there as far as I can see, and that's why the Air Accident Investigation Board have produced this report informing people that they would be nuts to go anywhere near an aircraft at the moment. I suppose the "experts" on here know better though.
 
So what. We are not seeing a spate of rail crashes due to drivers forgetting what they are doing, but planes are near enough falling out of the sky right left and centre. It's complete mayhem up there as far as I can see, and that's why the Air Accident Investigation Board have produced this report informing people that they would be nuts to go anywhere an aircraft at the moment.

Like any rational person I haven’t wasted my time by actually reading your response, that would obviously be a pointless exercise trying to pick some kind of meaning from your scrivenings. But I imagine you are extrapolating from an isolated incident, in a similar way that you think Moomin Mama and the Snork Maiden have a thing for you.
 
So what. We are not seeing a spate of rail crashes due to drivers forgetting what they are doing, but planes are near enough falling out of the sky right left and centre. It's complete mayhem up there as far as I can see, and that's why the Air Accident Investigation Board have produced this report informing people that they would be nuts to go anywhere near an aircraft at the moment. I suppose the "experts" on here know better though.
Apart from these 19 incidents:
 
"Complete mayhem"... LOL.

Let's put it this way. If every single U75 active member flew twice a day, every single day for the next two years, it would still be extraordinarily unlikely that even just a single one of us would find themselves in a plane crash. I think I'll take my chances.
 
"Complete mayhem"... LOL.

Let's put it this way. If every single U75 active member flew twice a day, every single day for the next two years, it would still be extraordinarily unlikely that even just a single one of us would find themselves in a plane crash. I think I'll take my chances.
I bet no urban75 active member would be brave enough to put this to the test though.

You shouldn't be lulled into a false sense of security by statistics from past years. Now that most pilots can't remember anything about how flying works, you should just ditch all air travel and go by train instead. Don't say I didn't warn you.
 
Thanks for the advice. I think I'll still take my chances with the plane over a 16+hour, multi-train-change nightmare journey.
 
Thanks for the advice. I think I'll still take my chances with the plane over a 16+hour, multi-train-change nightmare journey.
Sure, I get it. For some people, it's more attractive to take the simple but deadly option over the slightly more cognitively challenging, but safer and sensible one.
 
Yes, I read most RAIB reports.

Now tell me how many of them are caused by drivers forgetting how to drive trains after sitting at home for 2 years.
We all know what you read is:

images


And, I hate to break it to, it was published by the RAIB.
 
You can prove anything with "facts" :rolleyes:
Firstly, regarding the railway incident at Salisbury the driver of the train has been totally cleared of any mistakes. So the problem is likely to be poor maintenance of track i.e. leaves on the line and a temporary speed restriction incorrectly set or not in place or the leaves not being cleared. It could also the position of the signal is too close to the junction.

Now regarding the AAIB branch interim report. Poor pilot performance is only one area they are looking at, but wanted to state it in the report to ensure go-arounds and other more unusual manoeuvres are performed in the simulator for other pilots.

From PDF downloaded from AAIB Special Bulletin S2/2021 on Boeing 737-8K5, G-FDZF
The pilots of G-FDZF, like many other pilots, had not flown for significant periods during the 18 months before this incident. Although the investigation has not established a link between this incident and a lack of recent line flying, it is clearly a possibility. Therefore, this Special Bulletin is published to raise awareness of this event and to highlight that go-arounds from intermediate altitudes on an approach can provoke errors because they are not practiced frequently
Then at the end of the report
Further work The investigation continues to examine all pertinent operational, technical, organisational and human factors which might have contributed to this serious incident. In particular, work will be undertaken to:
● Assess the impact of the lack of recent flying on the actions of the crew.
● Assess the effectiveness of the barriers to crews recognising that there has been a significant deviation from the expected flight path.
● Ensure the flight director behaved as expected.
● Consider the effect of ATC instructions during the go-around and, subsequently, during periods of high crew workload.
 
From the RIAB:
  • 4 December 2020: Overspeeding drivers
  • 11 November 2020: Derailment at Sheffield. Crap maintenance
  • Whoopsie
  • 1638557909186.png
etc etc

I don't won't to make light of the reports highlight deaths and life-changing injuries, but there are several in the last year on the rails and none in commercial aviation.

Anyway I should be more like Snufkin and chill :)
 
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From the RIAB:
  • 4 December 2020: Overspeeding drivers
  • 11 November 2020: Derailment at Sheffield. Crap maintenance
  • Whoopsie
  • View attachment 299267
etc etc

I don't won't to make light of the reports highlight deaths and life-changing injuries, but there are several in the last year on the rails and none in commercial aviation.

Anyway I should be more like Snufkin and chill :)
So, you failed to find any reports that identified driver errors as likely to have been caused by a period of not working during the pandemic?
 
So, you failed to find any reports that identified driver errors as likely to have been caused by a period of not working during the pandemic?
Driving past a temporary speed is not a problem with the driver?

From Report 04/2021: Signal passed at danger and subsequent near miss, Chalfont & Latimer station
At around 21:43 hrs on Sunday 21 June 2020, a near miss occurred between two passenger trains at London Underground’s Chalfont & Latimer station on the Metropolitan line. A few minutes earlier a southbound Chiltern Railways train had passed a signal displaying a red (stop) aspect (known as a signal passed at danger or a ‘SPAD’). This resulted in the train being automatically stopped by a safety system, known as a tripcock, which had applied the train’s emergency brake. Without seeking the authority required from the service operator (signaller), the driver reset the tripcock before continuing towards Chalfont & Latimer station, where the train was routed towards the northbound platform, which was occupied by a London Underground train.

The Chiltern Railways train stopped about 23 metres before reaching the other train, which was stationary. There were no reported injuries, but there was minor damage to signalling equipment and a set of points.
And
At around 10:57 hrs on 26 March 2020, a train formed of two locomotives and an empty, un-braked, passenger multiple unit passed a signal at danger about 0.75 miles (1.2 km) south of Loughborough station. The train passed the signal at a speed of about 20 mph (32 km/h) and came to a stand around 200 metres beyond it. The signal was at danger to protect the movement of a passenger service which was just about to leave Loughborough station.

The incident occurred because the train was travelling too fast for its braking capability, and because the braking applied by the driver was insufficient to stop the train from that speed within the available distance. Evidence indicates that the train was travelling at a speed of around 75 mph (121 km/h) on the approach to the signal, whereas the maximum permitted speed for the train, which takes into account its braking capability, was 60 mph (97 km/h).
 
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Driving past a temporary speed is not a problem with the driver?

From Report 04/2021: Signal passed at danger and subsequent near miss, Chalfont & Latimer station

And
You aren't getting this. Of course drivers make mistakes. Neither of these reports suggest the driver error was a result of lack of practice caused by pandemic lockdowns.

The issue is that pilots have forgotten how to fly planes as a result of the aviation industry being virtually shut down for the best part of a year or so. This did not happen on the railways.

It means that pilots have lost their skills and there is now no way of flying safely again, because any plane that goes up now is a potential death trap. Would you let a 2 year old drive you along a motorway? No, because you would not trust that they have any relevant training. This is why the whole aviation industry should just be shut down for good now.
 
So some train drivers are dangerous all the time regardless of training. (Thanks for clarifying that)
Pilots on the other hand may have a temporary reduction in skill, which after the first possible incident (the AAIB are not sure), has been flagged and training will be improved accordingly. While the railway network has multiple SPADs, drivers proceeding without permission after SPADs and infrastructure in such poor maintenance it causes derailments.
 
You aren't getting this. Of course drivers make mistakes. Neither of these reports suggest the driver error was a result of lack of practice caused by pandemic lockdowns.

The issue is that pilots have forgotten how to fly planes as a result of the aviation industry being virtually shut down for the best part of a year or so. This did not happen on the railways.

It means that pilots have lost their skills and there is now no way of flying safely again, because any plane that goes up now is a potential death trap. Would you let a 2 year old drive you along a motorway? No, because you would not trust that they have any relevant training. This is why the whole aviation industry should just be shut down for good now.


This is great and of course you are correct. Anything that reinforces your belief that you should keep away from the adult's form of transport is a GOOD THING.
 
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And maybe a 747 window to look at it through
 
You know a lot of train drivers have been off and maintaining their route qualifications by watching DVDs ?
There are some really good train simulators that will run on a laptop, you'd kind of hope they'd have demanded more of furloughed staff re recency
 
There are some really good train simulators that will run on a laptop, you'd kind of hope they'd have demanded more of furloughed staff re recency

A friend of mine is a driver and he just got route DVDs.
 
There are some really good train simulators that will run on a laptop, you'd kind of hope they'd have demanded more of furloughed staff re recency
Doubt they'd be accurate enough to be any good for retaining route knowledge. The whole point is to learn the real route, not an approximation produced for a computer game. A DVD would seem more appropriate.
 
Better than nothing. But not good
I imagine that unlike hand flying there isn't that much hand to eye fine motor skills (with perhaps the exception of manual breaking for platform positioning) its all hyper safety critical procedural stuff. But I've only ever driven train simulators twice so have no real idea.
 
I imagine that unlike hand flying there isn't that much hand to eye fine motor skills (with perhaps the exception of manual breaking for platform positioning) its all hyper safety critical procedural stuff. But I've only ever driven train simulators twice so have no real idea.
Me niether, but thats a lot of inerita and momentum to have to deal with. And tbf of lot of flying recency is safety critical procedural stuff too
 
Me niether, but thats a lot of inerita and momentum to have to deal with. And tbf of lot of flying recency is safety critical procedural stuff too
Train drivers have better egos. Or rather, naver met a train driver with the ego of a pilot...maybe its just how they roll.
 
I am getting very exciting about my first international flight in nearly two years. 48 days to go....not that I'm counting...GIG to CDG with AF. Because of the uncertainty I booked premium economy for the extra flexibility...if they offer an upgrade to business I'm going to be very tempted to splash out on the way over, at least.
so, 20 days to go and France now require a pre-departure PCR test...which is fine....except I've booked on the 26th December, perhaps the worst day imaginable to test in the preceding 48 hours. :facepalm: My PCR lady, Pricilla (yes, we are on first name terms) has promised to have a nurse at my flat at 0800 and a result in time for the 1630 flight. We will then have to test again to fly from Paris to Porto, and from Porto back home to Brazil. I wonder if this increases the chance of an affordable upgrade:D

Or maybe I should just postpone everything a few months.
 
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