chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Even Douglas Voupland nailed this 20 odd years ago in Generation X if I recall...
Yup "Nutritional Slumming"
Fuck Gentrification - Join the Fuck Parade...Part 3!
- Thread starter ClassWar2015
- Start date
Yup "Nutritional Slumming"
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Hulme wasn't gentrified. It was "cleared".
I'm disclined to go through anything with you as it's rarely a pleasurable or even polite experience.
But since you and some others disagree with my experience of gentrification, I'd like to figure out what the defining characteristics are meant to be.
This is Hulme, Manchester, probably in the early 1990s.
The hipsters and boho types of the time came, but they didn't revive anything, because they came at the end. Then much of the area was demolished. What's that if not top-down control? Now it's popular with yuppies and city commuters. So is that ultimately gentrification, or is it excluded because it's a particular failure mode, i.e. shit 1960s planning?
As another example, this is part of Southampton now.
Built from the mid-2000s onwards. Big influx of yuppies, ranging from lower middle class to yacht-owning nouveau riche. But before this existed, it used to be a dock, or in some cases, underwater. I don't think it was hipsters that filled in the Solent, but maybe it was. So, is it not to be filed under gentrification because there was no housing there before? OK, but it brought a load of money and property demand into the city, and around the corner which had always existed, it changed the local economy along the usual lines of old man pubs becoming bars and restaurants and so on, which looks a lot like gentrification to me. But in case you don't know Southampton, there's no burgeoning scene or anything FFS, there was never any great pull from culture. The buildings and availability of property came first, then the image of a particular lifestyle that it portrayed, and then the inhabitants, and then the things to service them.
Again, what's that if not top-down?
Now I can see the difference between (re)development and the more common sliding-tile pattern of gentrification, especially in places where the above doesn't work. For example it's not like you can demolish parts of, say, Paris and reinvent them - you would have to appropriate and alter what exists. Ditto elsewhere for different reasons. But most of what I see, especially in Britain, admittedly outside London, is not a slow subversion - it's new, often speculative construction that largely precedes and generates the influx, rather than merely reflecting it.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Much of the original "Clockwork Orange" part of Thamesmead has been cleared now too. Many people originally living in the high rises have been "decanted" due to demolition. I wouldn't describe the area as gentrified even though there's been a lot of new building and also new business eg massive new Sainsbury. The changes have been primarily driven by structural changes arising from Crossrail development.
I agree, although there's various flavours of self employed.
I don't think that's an unreasonable point, attacking some novelty cafe because the owners look like those hipster people we're blaming for gentrification does share similarities with the actions of far right idiots.
Mr.Bishie
pickled egg
Are you on crack?
no I just think that attacking a novelty cafe full of students and 'hipsters' is really stupid and unhelpful... and yes attacking people who sort of fit the stereotype of the people you think are to blame for some issue is the sort of thing right wing thugs do
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
They attacked people?
a whole cafe full apparently...
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
apparently?
xes
F.O.A.D
The world accoring to Dowie
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
Your concern towards gentrification and its effects on communities, working class, etc. can be seen by the following summary of your contributions on this thread:
What about the chicken?/smoke grenades!/people with beards who dress differently!/but small businesses/right wing types attacking mosques/class definitions are flawed (and repeat)
Aye, for sure.
And the psychological turmoil isn't only about economic contradictions. During the C19th and early C20th, the proletariat and the bourgeoisie looked, talked and thought in completely different ways, not just about economics but about everything. If it's true that this class contradiction is now internalized, that could be expected to cause all kinds of psychological contradictions, on all kinds of subjects. I reckon that a large part of the mental health crisis we're witnessing today can be traced to that development.
Buckaroo
Donkey piss and tractors
Can it bollocks! Mental Health Crisis, Fuck off!
There's currently an epidemic of depression, addiction, autism, ADHD etc. You'd have to be pretty naive to deny that it had any socio-economic causes. The internalization of economic contradictions seems a highly plausible candidate.
Last edited:
perhaps some of it is simply the result of better understanding of mental health... other parts related to different approaches by medical professionals - you mention ADHD for example, 20 times more American kids have it than French kids - that is more down to a different approach by medical professionals in who they chose to diagnoses rather than a huge difference between those populations themselves
That's probably a debate for another thread. But in such a debate, I'd point out that the opinions and decisions of doctors themselves have socio-economic causes. Science does not operate in a vacuum.
Why are certain kinds of behavior being clinicized (treated as diseases in need of medical intervention) today when they weren't 20-30 years ago? It must reflect a change in understanding of human subjectivity, which in turn must be the result of socio-economic changes. Once again, the internalization of economic contradictions seems likely to be a factor.
we only seem to have the cereal cafe owner's claims to go on that it was packed with customers and kids, which seems strange because the paint incident happened an hour after they say they close on their website. More likely they had a couple of mates round having a drink.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
...and, assuming the veracity of their story, people were attacked?
if someone is sat in a cafe and and angry mob breaks the window, throws paint at it and lobs a smoke grenade inside... (which thankfully didn't get too far past the door) then I think it is right to say they were 'attacked'
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
No windows were broken I believe but if they were then that would be an act of terrible violence.
Last edited:
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Last edited:
theres a video shot from inside here: Hipster-hating mob attacks Cereal Killer cafe
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nti-gentrification-protests-turn-violent.html
No terrified kids, no broken windows, just some paint and people throwing cornflakes
Mr.Bishie
pickled egg
LOL - What fuckin planet are you on? Not the fucker we're all living on, that's for fuckin sure
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
And here: Shoreditch anti-gentrification protest: the view from inside the Cereal Killer Cafe - video
The place does sound pretty much empty.
The place does sound pretty much empty.
OK wrong on the windows being broken... but still a group throwing paint, throwing a smoke grenade in the door.
Mr.Bishie
pickled egg
Similar threads
