Freeman-on-the-land idiocies

[8den]

I'll be living out my utopian hunter gatherer life in the UK taa muchly. As soon as I can, have ties at the moment so it's not feasable. But I will do it one day, it is my idea of heaven.

You lot can deal with the fallout of when the banks crash fully and there is no money.

Okay we'll economics to the ever growing list of shit you know nothing about.

I've already got a good food storage, (well, about 2 months worth) next step will be to sort the water out. And i've been planting edible things around my local countrside for about 4 years. (forgot where i put half of it, but that's beside the point) My "right wing" paradise is well and truly in the making. Probably need to invest in some solar pannels of some sort for leccy.

And what if "society collapses" before you get around this? How will you pay for it then? Even if you're capable getting together to sort this out before this supposed collapse, exactly what can you trade to secure parts and repairs for a solar panel.

Incidentally if you stub your toe on a rusty nail, who's ensuring there's a reliable source of tetanus shots? Or antibotics?

Even if the workers of the pharmacy planets can organise working together, who's managing the transportation and distribution?

I imagine you'll want "leccy" to run the DVDs you watched while stoned, who's making the films you watch, growing your weed, and hanging out?

Have a fireplace which just needs to be made good. If it all goes down
tomorow,

So if it does gone down tomorrow you think your chimney sweep has a sat phone, with solar panels.

I can live happily for at least 2 months before I have to start eating people. I don't need to go to another country. it is my right to live like that right where i am.

So basically your argument is that unless you start eating people you should be allowed do what you want? Jesus? Everyone aside from Hannibal Lector is evil?

Now, I;m goiung to go and get as high as i can, and watch some stuff.

Two things you will not be able to do in your utopia.

How exactly will you pay the tv technicians and film makers and the guy who grows your herb? Say you pay them in vegetables? How do buy tranport time?

What happens if your child is ill at 6am, and you don't have the cash on you?

 

[xes]

So basically your argument is that unless you start eating people you should be allowed do what you want?

Yes, that's just what I mean

And you think I'm thick, sheesh.

 

[Giles]

They haven't beaten it yet, fair enough, but I have faith that they will eventually. And it'll be the start of something beautiful.

What would your best way of lawful dissent be, then? Nobody else has anything better than the FOTL lot. Oh yes, lets go stand in London for a bit, which will do nothing at all. Great idea, I'm sure the goverment give a fuck and everything.

No, I still don't see what's right wing about wanting to move the fuck out of home and stand on my own 2 feet. Taking responsibility for myself and my own actions. Wow, I'm soooooo right wing!!! (why is it that when ever I do a political compass thing, I always end up left of Ghandi and the Dhali Lama, have I gone too left and ended up in the right wing campus? I don't think so)

What makes you think that the all-powerful "system" have deliberately left this gaping hole in their legal systems, such that anyone can opt out of paying their share, simply by saying "I'm a freeman" or by writing their names in lower case, or standing up or sitting down at key moments in court, or by calling themselves "Fred of the family Bloggs" or some other silliness?

Why would those who write the laws include all these "secret" provisions for not having to comply with them, just waiting for this secret knowledge to leak out and spread around.

I don't get it.

Giles..

 

[Santino]

Is this the same system that has concealed the evidence of extra-terrestrial intelligence for decades and is now in the process of 'drip-feeding' us the revelation of its existence to pave the way for a brave new world?

 

[xes]

Part of that system, yes.

 

[Psychonaut]

I'll be living out my utopian hunter gatherer life in the UK taa muchly. As soon as I can, have ties at the moment so it's not feasable. But I will do it one day, it is my idea of heaven.

You lot can deal with the fallout of when the banks crash fully and there is no money. I've already got a good food storage, (well, about 2 months worth) next step will be to sort the water out. And i've been planting edible things around my local countrside for about 4 years. (forgot where i put half of it, but that's beside the point) My "right wing" paradise is well and truly in the making. Probably need to invest in some solar pannels of some sort for leccy. Have a fireplace which just needs to be made good. If it all goes down tomorow, I can live happily for at least 2 months before I have to start eating people. I don't need to go to another country. it is my right to live like that right where i am.

Now, I;m goiung to go and get as high as i can, and watch some stuff.

have you read ferfals blog? notes on survival through the argentinian economic crisis when it went a bit madmax.

Thats great about the stockpiling & guerilla veg patchs. Everyone home should have a few months cheap food in stock, then society wouldnt have to collapse in the event of A failure in banking/oil supply/electric/natural disaster or whatever else.

 

[past caring]

 

[Jeff Robinson]

(((((Xes)))))

 

[neil ferguson]

Seriously, if these fucking nutters want to not pay tax then fair play to them. But then they will have to provide their own health care, they can't use our (the tax payers) roads, will have to sort out their own waste with no recourse to any services they haven't got a legally binding contract with a supplier for, will have to pay someone to teach their children (please god make it so they can't breed) and if they get the shit beaten out of them will have to tell the police to stay the fuck out of their fmotl business. No, these guys are just freeloaders who you can guarantee will be taking every penny they can from the state and who haven't the brains to work out that someone has to provide those pennies. Or is that provided by the millions hidden behind the birth certificate. It's a pity that modern society has stopped natural selection in it's tracks.

 

[Deareg]

Seriously, if these fucking nutters want to not pay tax then fair play to them. But then they will have to provide their own health care, they can't use our (the tax payers) roads, will have to sort out their own waste with no recourse to any services they haven't got a legally binding contract with a supplier for, will have to pay someone to teach their children (please god make it so they can't breed) and if they get the shit beaten out of them will have to tell the police to stay the fuck out of their fmotl business. No, these guys are just freeloaders who you can guarantee will be taking every penny they can from the state and who haven't the brains to work out that someone has to provide those pennies. Or is that provided by the millions hidden behind the birth certificate. It's a pity that modern society has stopped natural selection in it's tracks.

You started out saying you wanted to be serious, make your fucking mind up.

 

[kenny g]

Amazing how statist some so called radicals are. It is perfectly honourable to want to consider the possibility of surviving with as little recourse to the state and modern economy as possible. That doesn't mean the absurdity of reaching the levels shown in the US program preppers where people stock pile six months worth of excess US consumption and preparation is just another outlet for hoarding and mass consumption. It does mean perfectly sensible approaches towards veg gardening, preparing patches of land so they can be converted to food production relatively quickly, improving food growing skills, and learning to cook from bulk, nutritious staples. . I decided a few years ago that I could not be arsed becoming an allotmenter but have dug up my front paving, used giant clover to break up the soil and as a green manure, and now planted a few flowers. In a drop of a hat it could be used for spinach/ greenery growing. Similarly, brown chick peas are bought in 2kg bags and I can cook a weeks worth of lunch with around 400g for fuck all money. All local wild apple, sweet chestnut and mulberry trees have been identified and utilised.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Amazing how statist some so called radicals are. It is perfectly honourable to want to consider the possibility of surviving with as little recourse to the state and modern economy as possible. That doesn't mean the absurdity of reaching the levels shown in the US program preppers where people stock pile six months worth of excess US consumption and preparation is just another outlet for hoarding and mass consumption. It does mean perfectly sensible approaches towards veg gardening, preparing patches of land so they can be converted to food production relatively quickly, improving food growing skills, and learning to cook from bulk, nutritious staples. . I decided a few years ago that I could not be arsed becoming an allotmenter but have dug up my front paving, used giant clover to break up the soil and as a green manure, and now planted a few flowers. In a drop of a hat it could be used for spinach/ greenery growing. Similarly, brown chick peas are bought in 2kg bags and I can cook a weeks worth of lunch with around 400g for fuck all money. All local wild apple, sweet chestnut and mulberry trees have been identified and utilised.

To be fair, a week of chickpeas will make your home smell of brown manure.

 

[Frances Lengel]

These wankers wanting to go back to some sort of hunter primitive gatherer/growing all your own runner beans type shit can fuck right off. Spending all your physical and mental stregnth on something so mundane as securing your next meal sounds a bit of a fucking drag to me. And if the system does collapse do people think just coz they know how to trap rabbits and distill their own piss, they'll somehow be alright? What's to stop a load of marauding brigands taking their rabbits off them, sticking big sticks up their arses, dipping them in barrels of shit and calling them toffee apples? Nothing. Point proved, I'd say.

And prior to this thread, the only place I've ever seen FOTL mentioned is VNN.

 

[Blagsta]

Amazing how statist some so called radicals are. It is perfectly honourable to want to consider the possibility of surviving with as little recourse to the state and modern economy as possible. That doesn't mean the absurdity of reaching the levels shown in the US program preppers where people stock pile six months worth of excess US consumption and preparation is just another outlet for hoarding and mass consumption. It does mean perfectly sensible approaches towards veg gardening, preparing patches of land so they can be converted to food production relatively quickly, improving food growing skills, and learning to cook from bulk, nutritious staples. . I decided a few years ago that I could not be arsed becoming an allotmenter but have dug up my front paving, used giant clover to break up the soil and as a green manure, and now planted a few flowers. In a drop of a hat it could be used for spinach/ greenery growing. Similarly, brown chick peas are bought in 2kg bags and I can cook a weeks worth of lunch with around 400g for fuck all money. All local wild apple, sweet chestnut and mulberry trees have been identified and utilised.

Ahhh, the smell of selfish hippy individualism is strong in this one!

 

[kenny g]

What's to stop a load of marauding brigands taking their rabbits off them etc.

Not a very good reason not to know how to make a rabbit stew. Or how to skin a rabbit for that matter. Obviously being able to cook, grow vegetables and feed a family on fuck all is not a panacea but it is something that has come in useful and I have thanked my mum for quite a few times. People who are interested in learning to live with less resources or to use available resources more efficiently are to be commended rather than mocked by statist leftists.

I agree that aiming to have to live as a full time small holder / allotment peasant is not a particularly attractive option. I can't be arsed with it either but I don't object to having some basic knowledge as to how it can be done.

 

[Jazzz]

What makes you think that the all-powerful "system" have deliberately left this gaping hole in their legal systems, such that anyone can opt out of paying their share, simply by saying "I'm a freeman" or by writing their names in lower case, or standing up or sitting down at key moments in court, or by calling themselves "Fred of the family Bloggs" or some other silliness?

Why would those who write the laws include all these "secret" provisions for not having to comply with them, just waiting for this secret knowledge to leak out and spread around.

I don't get it.

Giles..

Well, it's a case of jurisdiction. It doesn't matter what laws you might write - if you don't have it, they don't matter.

Take Urban75 as a case in point. We sign up, creating our urban75 account, and agree to follow the posting rules outlined in the FAQ. Should we break those rules, we can expect penalties, i.e. temporary bannings, or the ultimate sanction - a permanent ban (execution). editor is sovereign of urban75, and gets to make the rules. We consent to them. If he wanted, he could notice the introduction of subscription fees and financial penalties for posting violations, and if we didn't reject (the offer!), they'd be good in law.

But if editor wanted everyone in the country to pay him £10 per week - what matter what rules he makes up? He has no jurisdiction over Fred Bloggs of Chumpbottom.

And so it is with our system of governance. What is it that makes us the subject of the queen, and not the other way around? Royal jelly? The blinging jewelry? No - it's our consent.

 

[DotCommunist]

Amazing how statist some so called radicals are. It is perfectly honourable to want to consider the possibility of surviving with as little recourse to the state and modern economy as possible. That doesn't mean the absurdity of reaching the levels shown in the US program preppers where people stock pile six months worth of excess US consumption and preparation is just another outlet for hoarding and mass consumption. It does mean perfectly sensible approaches towards veg gardening, preparing patches of land so they can be converted to food production relatively quickly, improving food growing skills, and learning to cook from bulk, nutritious staples. . I decided a few years ago that I could not be arsed becoming an allotmenter but have dug up my front paving, used giant clover to break up the soil and as a green manure, and now planted a few flowers. In a drop of a hat it could be used for spinach/ greenery growing. Similarly, brown chick peas are bought in 2kg bags and I can cook a weeks worth of lunch with around 400g for fuck all money. All local wild apple, sweet chestnut and mulberry trees have been identified and utilised.

freemen on the land heark back to an older supposedly purer form of governance.Common law and all that bollocks. They're reactionaries, whose greatest acts of radicalism are to try and skip out on council tax and speeding fines.

 

[Giles]

Well, it's a case of jurisdiction. It doesn't matter what laws you might write - if you don't have it, they don't matter.

Take Urban75 as a case in point. We sign up, creating our urban75 account, and agree to follow the posting rules outlined in the FAQ. Should we break those rules, we can expect penalties, i.e. temporary bannings, or the ultimate sanction - a permanent ban (execution). editor is sovereign of urban75, and gets to make the rules. We consent to them. If he wanted, he could notice the introduction of subscription fees and financial penalties for posting violations, and if we didn't reject (the offer!), they'd be good in law.

But if editor wanted everyone in the country to pay him £10 per week - what matter what rules he makes up? He has no jurisdiction over Fred Bloggs of Chumpbottom.

And so it is with our system of governance. What is it that makes us the subject of the queen, and not the other way around? Royal jelly? The blinging jewelry? No - it's our consent.

It is true that we generally consent to being part of the country that we live in. Also that living in any country involves obligations to obey laws and chip in money to pay for things.

But my old post was commenting on the silliness of these "freemen" in believing that they can circumvent laws by doing silly things (like using funny versions of their names) that they incorrectly believe will allow them individually to escape criminal charges, or allow them to avoid paying taxes, fines, car insurance and other stuff.

See this entry for more on freeman bollocks.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Freeman_on_the_land

Giles..

 

[Santino]

Well, it's a case of jurisdiction. It doesn't matter what laws you might write - if you don't have it, they don't matter.

Take Urban75 as a case in point. We sign up, creating our urban75 account, and agree to follow the posting rules outlined in the FAQ. Should we break those rules, we can expect penalties, i.e. temporary bannings, or the ultimate sanction - a permanent ban (execution). editor is sovereign of urban75, and gets to make the rules. We consent to them. If he wanted, he could notice the introduction of subscription fees and financial penalties for posting violations, and if we didn't reject (the offer!), they'd be good in law.

But if editor wanted everyone in the country to pay him £10 per week - what matter what rules he makes up? He has no jurisdiction over Fred Bloggs of Chumpbottom.

And so it is with our system of governance. What is it that makes us the subject of the queen, and not the other way around? Royal jelly? The blinging jewelry? No - it's our consent.

In your analogy, editor would allow people to avoid the subscription charges if they hadn't registered a proper email when signing up, when in reality he'd just revoke their posting rights.

 

[XR75]

Seriously, if these fucking nutters want to not pay tax then fair play to them. But then they will have to provide their own health care, they can't use our (the tax payers) roads, will have to sort out their own waste with no recourse to any services they haven't got a legally binding contract with a supplier for, will have to pay someone to teach their children (please god make it so they can't breed) and if they get the shit beaten out of them will have to tell the police to stay the fuck out of their fmotl business. No, these guys are just freeloaders who you can guarantee will be taking every penny they can from the state and who haven't the brains to work out that someone has to provide those pennies. Or is that provided by the millions hidden behind the birth certificate. It's a pity that modern society has stopped natural selection in it's tracks.

Must be a funny time when people support all the nonsense the state throws at people then call them freeloaders for refusing to pay for freeloaders.
One thing I found quite funny about the FTMOL is how much it winds up the police.

 

[Jazzz]

It is true that we generally consent to being part of the country that we live in. Also that living in any country involves obligations to obey laws and chip in money to pay for things.

But my old post was commenting on the silliness of these "freemen" in believing that they can circumvent laws by doing silly things (like using funny versions of their names) that they incorrectly believe will allow them individually to escape criminal charges, or allow them to avoid paying taxes, fines, car insurance and other stuff.

See this entry for more on freeman bollocks.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Freeman_on_the_land

Giles..

Thanks Giles. I feel my understanding of the freeman movement, if not compete, exceeds that of your reference.

"it is true that we generally consent to being part of the country that we live in" it appears that you are saying this as if it happens simply by us being here. That's not the case. An example off the top of my head - Julian Assange is currently within our shores, yet is within the jurisdiction of Ecuador.

"living in any country involves obligations to chip in and pay for things" - I take it you are not seriously proposing this as a maxim of law. Who to? You? Me? The Queen? Who decides?

I've had a little experience with freeman stuff. I am not without criticisms of the movement. However, you are incorrect if you think that the stuff never works. I've seen first hand evidence of quite a bit. You can check out the posts on the forum www.getoutofdebtfree.org/ - plenty of people 'getting out' of parking fines, smaller bank loans, etc.

A4V success - perhaps the most extraordinary maneuver in the freeman's armoury is the accepted for value. We could have a whole thread devoted to acceptance for value. It is utterly incredible - in a nutshell, it involves taking a bill, and turning it into cash with some banking ju-jitsu, and then returning it as the payment for the debt. example -

The fact that people have got A4V to work appears to prove that we are subjected to an extremely complex financial scam by the powers that be.

However, it is certainly the case that just turning up in court and saying a few tricks is likely not going to work. If people are going for the harder stuff - they really need to know their stuff, and they likely have a big learning experience.

 

[butchersapron]

Any answer here yet jazzz? Come on, back it up.

I've had a little experience with freeman stuff. I am not without criticisms of the movement.

What are those criticisms?

 

[fogbat]

Must be a funny time when people support all the nonsense the state throws at people then call them freeloaders for refusing to pay for freeloaders.
One thing I found quite funny about the FTMOL is how much it winds up the police.

Shitting yourself during arrest winds up the police too.

 

[Jazzz]

Any answer here yet jazzz? Come on, back it up.



What are those criticisms?

I already told you that I am not doing your questions.

 

[butchersapron]

I already told you that I am not doing your questions.

I think you are, And i think you need to do it/them sharpish as each evasion only serves to make my point for me.

 

[Jazzz]

I think you are, And i think you need to do it/them sharpish as each evasion only serves to make my point for me.

In which case, you can have no complaint.

However I do - it is not gentlemanly to badger someone. I find engaging with you highly tedious.

 

[butchersapron]

In which case, you can have no complaint.

However I do - it is not gentlemanly to badger someone. I find engaging with you highly tedious.

Because you are trapped on each question with no elegant way to back out other than this refusal that you dress as principle. Happy to reply until you realised that i had you trapped weren't you?

 

[captainmission]

You can find a 192 page judgment by a Canadian judge in the case of a brave freeman seeking to avoid having to pay maintaince to his wife and children here - http://www.canlii.ca/en/ab/abqb/doc/2012/2012abqb571/2012abqb571.html

The judgment basically provides a detailed and reference guide to the history of various freemen movements and tactics and details how these have consistently been rejected under the Canadian legal system and left the litigants facing increased costs, punitive damages or contempt charges.

as for 'acceptance for value' this is characterised as

The mythology behind the ‘A4V’ scheme is extremely peculiar, and requires travel into the conspiratorial and demon-haunted shadow world of the OPCA [freeman] community. Aspects of this scheme are explained in reported U.S. cases, including: United States v. Heath, 525 F.3d 451 (6th Cir. 2008); United States v. Anderson, 353 F.3d 490, 500 (6th Cir. 2003), certiorari denied, 541 U.S. 1068 (2004); United States v. Oehler, 2003 WL 1824967 (D. Minn. Apr. 2, 2003), affirmed, 116 Fed. Appx. 43 (8th Cir. 2004); United State v. Eddie Ray Kahn et al., No. 1:08‑cr‑00271‑RCL‑1 (U.S.D.C. D.C. May 26, 2010). As I understand it, A4V’s guru promoters claim that each person is associated with a secret government bank account which contains millions of dollars. The exact sum varies from guru to guru. The bank account’s number is usually related to some identification number assigned to a person by the state, such as a Social Security Number, a Social Insurance Number, or a birth certificate number. The specific details of that relationship also seem to vary between A4V schemes.

 

[Jazzz]

Because you are trapped on each question with no elegant way to back out other than this refusal that you dress as principle. Happy to reply until you realised that i had you trapped weren't you?

I'm here to share opinions amicably, not to be interrogated by very small-minded people. Grow up.

 

[butchersapron]

No you're not. And yes you are. As i said, no way out but this. I'd like you to answer some reasonable questions please.