Freeman-on-the-land idiocies

[kyser_soze]

Wasn't something like this Wesley Snipes defence in his recent court case? Attempting to use the 'Unlawful Taxes' clause in the constitution to avoid paying federal income taxes? And who got 3 years for it?

 

[fogbat]

isthat a direct quote, or are you miaking up bullshit and putting words/beliefs in my mouth?

It's not a direct quote, no. But it's definitely an argument you've made on several occasions.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

betchya any money he doesn't do it though. And he's going to get away with it.

He won't get away with it. Nobody ever does with this stuff, though sometimes they manage to keep the cases going for years.

Anyway it still looks misleading. What was the actual court case that he won, if he won a court case?

 

[xes]

It's not a direct quote, no. But it's definitely an argument you've made on several occasions.

Which is a odd thing to state, considering I think Alex Jones is a bit of a loudmouthed cunt. Or are you putting words /beliefs in my mouth? (I think the answer to that is yes btw)

 

[xes]

He won't get away with it. Nobody ever does with this stuff, though sometimes they manage to keep the cases going for years.

Anyway it still looks misleading. What was the actual court case that he won, if he won a court case?

We'll wait and see on your first point i guess. But if this case wasn't won from a layman POV, then it certainly wasn't won from the courts POV. The case was apparently done and dealt with 2 hours before it started Why was nobody arrested for contempt of court? Why, becasue no crime has been committed, and everything done in that video was well within the law.

 

[junglevip]

Correct me if I am wrong but the point to me seems he avoided paying a tax that he did not agree with. Is it not possible that a white collar criminal who is creaming off vast sums of money in comparison with the best legal teams; have been at this for years but has not been publicised.

Further more, the reason there were riots in the streets about this tax was because the tax is unfair and has little to do with maintaining societies fabric. Nobody would object to paying into a fair system. Unless of course you have more of everything than everyone else as a result of such a system

 

[FridgeMagnet]

We'll wait and see on your first point i guess. But if this case wasn't won from a layman POV, then it certainly wasn't won from the courts POV. The case was apparently done and dealt with 2 hours before it started Why was nobody arrested for contempt of court? Why, becasue no crime has been committed, and everything done in that video was well within the law.

I can't watch the video. So what you're saying is that he didn't win some unidentified court case?

 

[fogbat]

Which is a odd thing to state, considering I think Alex Jones is a bit of a loudmouthed cunt. Or are you putting words /beliefs in my mouth? (I think the answer to that is yes btw)

Hmm. Might not have been Alex Jones. It was certainly someone of that calibre.

I'll try to dig the posts out later on, and see whether I remembered it correctly.

 

[gentlegreen]

You can still pay for things you want/neede. By paying a water bill, you're not paying council tax, you're paying a company to supply your water. That is a choice you have decided to make. Not an enforced tax. You can by solar pannels, water butts.

Will they take turnips / bacon as payment ?

The thing is, opting out of taxes you don't like is only the tip of the iceberg.

 

[kyser_soze]

Further more, the reason there were riots in the streets about this tax was because the tax is unfair and has little to do with maintaining societies fabric. Nobody would object to paying into a fair system. Unless of course you have more of everything than everyone else as a result of such a system

That was the Poll Tax. The Council Tax was basically a return to the old 'rates' system of having the amount you paid based on the value of your property, not every individual in your household over 18 paying separately.

 

[xes]

I can't watch the video. So what you're saying is that he didn't win some unidentified court case?

Court clerk stated that the layman had no right taking in court, layman stated that as he was already standing when he came in, then the clerk had NO juristiction. All defendants remained seated (again, giving no juristiction to the court clerk) The legal "person" present was a birth certificate. Magistrates fucked off, and wouldn't give written constent for the court to be disbanded. (after 3 or 4 asks) The layman eventually dissmissed his people, and noone was arrested, even though security was called for contempt of court. This was certainly not a win for the court.

 

[xes]

Will they take turnips / bacon as payment ?

Yes. Goods or services. Butthat's missing the point. You can still work, as when you sign a contract of employment, you are agreeing to work for said company under their rules. You can still have cash, you can still use stuff at your leasure. (there is no law to say the public have to pay council tax to use public convinieces ect)

And for who ever said this is right wing, fuck right off This about as right wing, as the left wing of a left handed aeroplane.

 

[Santino]

If the system is so fucked and corrupt, why don't the judges just put him in prison?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

That sounds more like "court ignores somebody's case because they were fucking about" to me. Winning would imply that he took a case to court and got a legal judgement in his favour.

 

[junglevip]

That was the Poll Tax. The Council Tax was basically a return to the old 'rates' system of having the amount you paid based on the value of your property, not every individual in your household over 18 paying separately.

Semantics; its hardly a fair system. There are low paid working people in my village paying the same as the multi millionaires who live here who own several properties.

 

[DotCommunist]

it is completely and totally right wing, gross individualist nonsense. Don't conflate a desire to stand apart from a system as left wing- it certainly isn't when you are doing it to get out of paying fucking council tax. The small minded nuttery of a green inker who resents paying tax. Such a whining philosophy of faux-rebellion. Tosspots.

 

[kyser_soze]

Semantics; its hardly a fair system. There are low paid working people in my village paying the same as the multi millionaires who live here who own several properties.

Because they live in properties that are valued the same. Presumably the millionaires have the tenants in their homes paying the council tax on them. And it's not semantics, council and poll tax are completely different ways of raising revenue.

 

[junglevip]

Because they live in properties that are valued the same. Presumably the millionaires have the tenants in their homes paying the council tax on them. And it's not semantics, council and poll tax are completely different ways of raising revenue.

The houses in question are council owned houses. You are not addressing the point of fairness.

 

[kyser_soze]

What, so the council houses round your way are worth as much as the millionaire houses?

 

[xes]

One question. if this was all bullshit, then why wasn't the layman arrested? if you're in contempt of court, they will just arrest you (if you give them that right) So why has this not happened here, what's different?

 

[junglevip]

What, so the council houses round your way are worth as much as the millionaire houses

According to you yes.

Presumably the millionaires have the tenants in their homes paying the council tax on them

That is a presumption. In some cases not

B

 

[Blagsta]

Yes. Goods or services. Butthat's missing the point. You can still work, as when you sign a contract of employment, you are agreeing to work for said company under their rules. You can still have cash, you can still use stuff at your leasure. (there is no law to say the public have to pay council tax to use public convinieces ect)

And for who ever said this is right wing, fuck right off This about as right wing, as the left wing of a left handed aeroplane.

That's a classic free market (right wing) argument you cock.

 

[Blagsta]

One question. if this was all bullshit, then why wasn't the layman arrested? if you're in contempt of court, they will just arrest you (if you give them that right) So why has this not happened here, what's different?

They don't always. It's called discretion.

 

[ymu]

What, so the council houses round your way are worth as much as the millionaire houses?

Because the upper banding stops at a ridiculously low level?

Surprising, I know ...

 

[kyser_soze]

What, so the council houses round your way are worth as much as the millionaire houses

According to you yes.

Presumably the millionaires have the tenants in their homes paying the council tax on them

That is a presumption. In some cases not

B

Well no, I'm not saying that, you are. Council tax contributions are calculated on the value of your property, taken in 1991 and are in bands. You said:

There are low paid working people in my village paying the same as the multi millionaires who live here who own several properties.

So I can only assume that the value of council housing in your area is on a par with the value of the millionaire houses, if they're paying the same amount in council tax.

 

[xes]

That's a classic free market (right wing) argument you cock.

I'm soooo right wing, I'd better go join the BNP You cock.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

I'm certainly happy to entertain the general notion that council tax is unfair. There are however different motivations for this. I don't think that a lot of bank charges are fair, but if somebody came along saying that they weren't going to pay bank charges because the Jews owned the banks and a true Christian didn't have to pay a Jew by the Sod The Jews Act 1687, I would not be standing up there to support them, and they wouldn't win either.

 

[Blagsta]

I'm soooo right wing, I'd better go join the BNP You cock.

You're arguing classic right wing arguments. Note I said right wing, not far right. You're arguing a classic free market individualist line. If you weren't so wilfully thick, you'd know it too.

 

[junglevip]

Well no, I'm not saying that, you are. Council tax contributions are calculated on the value of your property, taken in 1991 and are in bands. You said:



So I can only assume that the value of council housing in your area is on a par with the value of the millionaire houses, if they're paying the same amount in council tax.

You are not addressing the point of fairness. You are making assumptions. My presumption is that your presumption does not stand up to scrutiny. I have no idea of house prices in north Dorset; I suspect that you don't either.

 

[kyser_soze]

Because the upper banding stops at a ridiculously low level?

Surprising, I know ...

Currently £320K in the England, based on the 1991 value of a property.

The revaluation that was supposed to happen in England in 2007 didn't. Prices in Wales were revalued (and led to the introduction of Band I), and the indexing of value/band stayed the same - I.e if your property was Band A, and remained within the Band A value range, there was no change.