Food Banks not necessary says Cameron

[butchersapron]

People on the centre-left support capitalism but want an element of social democracy to it. Labour describe themselves as centre-left and a social democratic party in the same way that SNP and Plaid Cymru do. Are they for capitalism and neoliberalism, yes.

The labour party call themselves 'socialists' yet support neoliberalism. Rather than applauding this you should take it as an abject lesson in the possibilities of formal/nominal content of political positions not equaling their substantive content. A bit like that there commie china.

 

[BigTom]

People on the centre-left support capitalism but want an element of social democracy to it. Labour describe themselves as centre-left and a social democratic party in the same way that SNP and Plaid Cymru do. Are they for capitalism and neoliberalism, yes.

Social democraticism and neo liberalism are necessarily opposed in terms of policy, they can't come together as they are fundamentally different ideas about how you manage capitalism.

Labour are neo liberal though, I agree with you on that. They describe themselves as social democrats but their policies don't fit with the idea of social democracy.

Just exactly what do you think neo liberalism is, and why do you think it wasn't included in your definition of centre left?

 

[ViolentPanda]

I think arguing for neoliberalism is right wing no matter what rhetorical condemnations you make of its planned outcomes. And confused.

Quite. If you accept an economic model that is the cause of a list of things that you're juvenile enough to view as the causes rather than the effects of neoliberalism, you're either on the right or doolally-tap. Possibly both.

 

[butchersapron]

People on the centre-left support a range of things - neoliberalism is not among them. Unless they are not on the centre left

Who is moon23?

A very confused young man.

 

[ViolentPanda]

The phrase 'baby-eating anarchists' doesn't mean anything to you then?

It means something to me.
It means "time for dinner. Better go check how the suckling longpig is doing"

 

[Aduk]

People on the centre-left support a range of things - neoliberalism is not among them. Unless they are not on the centre left

A very confused young man.

A bit like yourself then?

 

[butchersapron]

I asked you what you think neoliberalism is an hour ago aduk - twice, and others have asked since. I think you need to give a proper answer before we go any further - not just that shallow content free list you did offer..

 

[ViolentPanda]

I did say when I first posted on here that I was probably slight more right-wing on economic issues and considerably more left-wing when it comes to social issues. Most people are somewhere in the middle in this day and age.

It's not as black and white as you are either a capitalist or socialist/communist. Both systems have their pros and cons but I think somewhere in the middle is about right.

No form of neoliberalism is "somewhere in the middle". The basic predicates of neoliberal economics make that absolutely impossible.

 

[butchersapron]

Who is moon23?

A very confused young man.

A bit like yourself then?

Don't do this to yourself. Really.

 

[Aduk]

Okay, I'm not a neo-liberal but I support capitalism.

 

[butchersapron]

Okay, I'm not a neo-liberal but I support capitalism.

What's capitalism?

 

[ViolentPanda]

The Guardian as a newspaper supports neo liberalism, yet it is classes as a left-wing newspaper, so I disagree.

Good lord.

The Guardian doesn't class itself as a left-wing paper (although the right-wing press and some of The Guardian's readership do), it classes itself as a social liberal paper, which is no contradiction to it's support (albeit with a healthy dose of ameliorationism) of neoliberalism.

 

[Aduk]

I give up

 

[ViolentPanda]

By the vast majority of Guardian readers, as well as politicians and if you look at its description on Wikipedia, it's described as being a centre-left newspaper.

It supports capitalism but is a critic of it at the same time. Kind of like me I guess.

Who writes wikipedia? As I recall, entries can be edited by anyone who can be arsed.

 

[nino_savatte]

Okay, I'm not a neo-liberal but I support capitalism.

Say what?

 

[ViolentPanda]

I give up

If you're giving up, then at least educate yourself from sources more substantial than your current ones. That way, you may avoid causing large volumes of people to think of you as "that twat".

 

[ViolentPanda]

No, i think people who support neoliberalism (despite plainly not know what it is or what it entails) are right wing by definition. And i'm right to think that.

I'm getting a mental image of that legendary picture with Mark Wallace, Tim Akers and the other two spuds. Supporters of neoliberalism who are rightwing by definition, as well as being horrific genetic mutations.

 

[weepiper]

I think this thread was about food banks or something a while ago

 

[ViolentPanda]

Seriously - you just accused people who don't like neoliberalism of wanting to live in (neoliberal) china - and now you're saying others are unfairly labeling people? This is all over the shop.

Is that an improvement over accusing people who didn't like social democracy of wanting to live in the Soviet Union, or not? I think we should be told!

 

[ViolentPanda]

I think this thread was about food banks or something a while ago

It was, until somebody with very confused ideas about what caused the need for foodbanks started sounding off.

 

[Aduk]

I'm sorry. I put my hand up and admit I was wrong.

 

[nino_savatte]

That's why I'd like to see a more responsible form of capitalism which keeps big business and banks in order, reverses the trend of growing inequality and doesn't look to shrink the state all off to the private sector.

Oh? Tell me more.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I've posted a definition of the term 'centre-left' which fits into the whole concept of supporting capitalism but wanting a social alternative with it, but it would seem you're not willing to accept other views to your own.

You're comedy gold.

You've posted a link to wikipedia.
What you haven't done is defined "centre left" in your own terms. Any ponce can post a link. Someone who understands what they're talking about can generally define that subject in their own terms.

can you see why people might give you short shrift?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Oh? Tell me more.

I remember, back in the mid-'90s when Blair's inner circle were starting to chuck around bits and pieces of Castells and Giddens where journos would overhear them, thinking "wow, responsible capitalism! Rather a contradiction in terms!". What none of them, neither the pols, the academics or the journos seemed able to grasp was that capitalism is a one-way route - you can't go back to times when capitalism was slightly less rapacious, because capitalism can only ever become more rapacious. It's the nature of the beast/ideology/philosophy.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Nothing wrong with being a liberal.

I haven't said that there is (although I could!), I've merely defined, based on your posts, your political position.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Alright moon23.

What was it again, 18 votes or so?

 

[ViolentPanda]

People on the centre-left support capitalism but want an element of social democracy to it. Labour describe themselves as centre-left and a social democratic party in the same way that SNP and Plaid Cymru do. Are they for capitalism and neoliberalism, yes.

You appear to be confused (again).
The SNP and Plaid have never stated that they're "for" either, they've merely accepted that to function as a party that can represent their people, they're required (until something changes) to accept the hegemony of neoliberal economics.

 

[ViolentPanda]

double post

 

[brogdale]

What a fucking shame/ironic disgrace that 'Food banks' are (partly) named after the very criminal institutions that have created the conditions that require their existence.

Why not food unions?

 

[SpookyFrank]

Why not food unions?

Because the government would seize all the food if they called themselves unions. And then blame them for the potholes in the roads, late trains and all the other shit caused by underinvestment and private sector carpetbagging.