Treacle Toes
Time
3mins...
Outlining the priniciples of 'free speech' doesn't mean the nonsense you are saying is true.
Outlining the priniciples of 'free speech' doesn't mean the nonsense you are saying is true.
Feminism - where are the threads?
- Thread starter JudithB
- Start date
I don’t think he’s claiming that.
Sure why not!
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
You don't need permission for anything
Absolutely this. These are kinda difficult things to discuss though.
Treacle Toes
Time
He doesn't have to mate. He says a bunch of 'controversial' things then outlines free speech principles because he knows how people will react to what he's saying given it's bollocks
Having the right to say stuff doesn't make it true but the way he's ordered the first few minutes of this vid is deliberate and very much supposed to encourage the viewer to agree with him.
Thanks edie
I'm still going through and questioning my views on stuff encompassing feminism and womens rights that keep changing with life experience. I don't know if I'll be great at discussing, but I think I'm ok at listening when trying to work out an informed and fair opinion - and appreciate dog whistle stuff that I've missed being pointed out.
I'm here for the feminism, whatever shape that takes, I suppose. Really glad that theres a thread with the word in its title that popped up.
I'm still going through and questioning my views on stuff encompassing feminism and womens rights that keep changing with life experience. I don't know if I'll be great at discussing, but I think I'm ok at listening when trying to work out an informed and fair opinion - and appreciate dog whistle stuff that I've missed being pointed out.
I'm here for the feminism, whatever shape that takes, I suppose. Really glad that theres a thread with the word in its title that popped up.
I’d like to reply to this but I’m not sure what to say. I dunno what a derp is and I’m not entirely sure what point you’re making. You don’t recognise his depiction of masculinity? You don’t think males dominate conflict and war cross culturally? Or you mean you individually aren’t like that (which is fair enough but kind of misses the point).
OK. Finished now. Its bizarre and frankly insulting to men. He traduces us and makes out we are little more than biology with no context and no agency at all. I don't think this man should be around young men at all so I'm glad he was sacked, if he was.
Sub Jordan Peterson tosh.
Sub Jordan Peterson tosh.
It made me wonder if I’d misunderstood the whole thing to be honest. I do fundamentally think that men should protect and provide for women and children, and that the biological role of women with respect to being pregnant and caring for small children makes us vulnerable and needing that. I also think predominantly women’s work (caring work) is undervalued and want to discuss that. That’s feminism for me, not arguing there are no biological differences between men and women.I thought it interesting, I watched all of it but was interrupted by a call in the middle. His idea of the patriarchy is one quite a lot of men and women will agree with but not all.
provide procreate protect
Hmm ...
Why do you find it insulting to men?
He's making out like its something inherent in us rather than something that is forced upon us. Sure, there are some guys who want to go brain each other for 12 rounds but for the rest of us it is a situation forced upon us.
His depiction of sport has no context at all. I think its pretty clear now that given the opportunity young girls want to play football. Want to play Rugby, hell even some women want to get into a boxing ring and fair play to them because I don't have the guts to do that.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
that is longer than I made it - maybe half a dozen flat out lies by that point, and the Christina Hoff Sommers quote plus the "comedy" cartoon made it very clear where all this was coming from
Yes, he is saying it’s something inherent. Biological. That’s exactly what he’s saying. You disagree and think all gender is socially constructed?
He's using the classic MRA trope that men have had it much harder than women because war and violence. He then kinda goes on to elevate this as some sort of male burden. Billions and billions of young men have died in the most brutal and pointless way because of this reasoning.
I think arguing about whether men or women have had it harder is meaningless. There are clear disadvantages to being either man or woman, especially working class upper class much less so. I do appreciate your point tho that there’s a bit of a MRA flavour to it.
Steel Icarus
we move
How do you reconcile wanting equality for women in terms of pay etc with wanting men to provide for women and children?
Treacle Toes
Time
Full disclosure...I couldn't watch past 4 mins or so where he was discussing men mostly doing the war stuff and had a black and white pic of a muscle-man solider up...it reminded me of the Athena poster I had up on my wall as a young teenager and just how innocent and naive my thinking was then. The idea of a big strong bloke being ideal because as I am a girl I needed protecting and cherishing that because of my gender I needed to conform to what the patriarchy told me my worth and qualities were. That there was no point in being or seeing things differently because things 'just are'.
For me that is the level of analysis in this vid Edie that of an adolescent, someone as we all were looking for answers, a sense of belonging and wanting to fit in. Sure there are biological differences and in context they will present commonalities in terms of what roles/responsibilities men and women assume. And of course our socialisation and experiences will influence the people we are/want to be. I am not sure in who's interests his position is though, most men I know don't want to be solely defined on the patriarchy/macho scale just as most women don't want to be defined by a scale that comprises everything men aren't supposed to be.
and just how innocent and naive my thinking was then. The idea of a big strong bloke being ideal because as I am a girl I needed protecting and cherishing that because of my gender I needed to conform to what the patriarchy told me my worth and qualities were. That there was no point in being or seeing things differently because things 'just are'.For me that is the level of analysis in this vid Edie that of an adolescent, someone as we all were looking for answers, a sense of belonging and wanting to fit in. Sure there are biological differences and in context they will present commonalities in terms of what roles/responsibilities men and women assume. And of course our socialisation and experiences will influence the people we are/want to be. I am not sure in who's interests his position is though, most men I know don't want to be solely defined on the patriarchy/macho scale just as most women don't want to be defined by a scale that comprises everything men aren't supposed to be.
I try to listen to women when I've looked at "gender critical" stuff; I try to avoid eg posie parker because reasons I cant put my finger on. The far right in the us are all over this, the links in england are definitely there too but in a slightly different context . I feel uncomfortable dismissing opinions without hearing then though, for obvious reasons.
Not entirely. The more people I meet the more it strikes me that we're a bunch of oddballs and trying to assign characteristics based upon gender or whatever is futile. I do agree that when we're young men we're a pushy fighty people (not all obvs) but I'd like to think we can move beyond the idea that its inherent because we need to protect the tribe and therefore our behaviour is OK.
Its one thing to react out of anger its another thing to think its OK because nature.
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