JudithB
Well-Known Member
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Feminism - where are the threads?
- Thread starter JudithB
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JudithB
Well-Known Member
I meant to post this story before Christmas but then life got in the way. The Miss World who is taking the competition owners to court. Could a win for her be the deathknell of Miss World and would you want it to be?
I used to be on the fence and leaning towards it being harmless fun and a way for women from lower socio-economic groups to move up in the world. In the same respect that a working class lad could become a Premier League footballer. But I was much more lib fem in those days. As I have gotten older and re read more of the second wave I have mostly changed my view.
www.independent.co.uk
I used to be on the fence and leaning towards it being harmless fun and a way for women from lower socio-economic groups to move up in the world. In the same respect that a working class lad could become a Premier League footballer. But I was much more lib fem in those days. As I have gotten older and re read more of the second wave I have mostly changed my view.
Glosswitch: We need a Miss World who's a mother – so she can kill off the contest for good
It's not difficult to guess at the thinking behind the no mothers rule. A society that divided women into virgins and whores, sluts and saints, sex objects and brood mares, couldn’t possibly allow them to be both at once
www.independent.co.uk
The idea of rating women, of ordering them on a scale, not on the basis of achievement or success at doing something but just for what they are, is literally as objectifying as it gets. I don’t see how anyone remotely claiming to understand and endorse feminist theory could be anything but appalled by it.
JudithB
Well-Known Member
I know! It's quite amazing really. I only became aware again after all the hideous stories of Trump and his inappropriate behaviour at the pageants he ran/runs.
JudithB
Well-Known Member
Yes isn't it. But why are you attacking the person talking about it rather than the system that enables it? I grew up in a patriarchal structure. I am from a working class background. I was born in the 70's. This is part of my culture.
I perhaps had a whimsical feeling about it. Harmless fun?
Is this more damaging than women today saying sex work is work? Objectification and abuse for money. Women rated on their inexperience (virginity).
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
Because women get rated for their looks all the time anyway, so Miss World is doing what happens all the time but paying the women for it.
Though I don't claim to understand or endorse feminist theory. Don't really need to read theory in order to be a feminist, I'm just a feminist because I'm female.
JudithB
Well-Known Member
A lot of women feel the same way and then when they read some theory they realise that it is how they are feeling put into text. I am not sure I have mentioned on these board before I know of a great and reasonably priced Introduction to Feminism course. Seminars are held on line and all reading material is provided. If anyone was interested in more info send me a message. At the moment I think it is mainly women but the Tutor was thinking of running the course for men if enough were interested.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
Same to you JudithB x
friendofdorothy
Solidarity against neoliberalism!
Interesting programme this morning BBC Radio 4 - Start the Week, The genetic gender gap BBC Radio4 Start the Week interview
ElizabethofYork
Old Crone
Hope you and yours are doing well, Judith x
Serge Forward
Just enjoyin' my coffee.
ACG article Women and Coronavirus
"The working class has borne the brunt of the consequences of the coronavirus pandemic. (See article on class inequality). However, within the working class, the gender division of labour has created particular problems for women. Though men are more likely to die from the virus, women are finding that the kind of work they do both inside and outside the home is causing immense physical and mental hardship."
"The working class has borne the brunt of the consequences of the coronavirus pandemic. (See article on class inequality). However, within the working class, the gender division of labour has created particular problems for women. Though men are more likely to die from the virus, women are finding that the kind of work they do both inside and outside the home is causing immense physical and mental hardship."
Poot
My wife thinks I work too hard
The 'Karen' meme is everywhere – and it has become mired in sexism
I just want to mention Karen.
Karen has not travelled well. Now that Karen has arrived on these shores she is no longer an angry white woman who wants to speak to the manager, she seems to be any woman with an opinion.
Karen is simply another way of dismissing women, and worryingly she seems to be a way of women being self-deprecating. 'I don't want to be a Karen but...'
This is bothering me. Has anyone else picked up on this?
I just want to mention Karen.
Karen has not travelled well. Now that Karen has arrived on these shores she is no longer an angry white woman who wants to speak to the manager, she seems to be any woman with an opinion.
Karen is simply another way of dismissing women, and worryingly she seems to be a way of women being self-deprecating. 'I don't want to be a Karen but...'
This is bothering me. Has anyone else picked up on this?
wayward bob
i ate all your bees
yes. it's on my list of <banned in front of mum words/memes> that also includes "bitch". it's the casual nature of it that riles me most. like "boomer", so fucking lazy.
friendofdorothy
Solidarity against neoliberalism!
I've never heard of it, but then I do look to urbz to explain the 21st century to me, so thank you Poot. Bit tough on any one called Karen.
As usual language means something different here than in the US, and the name Karen doesn't have middle-class racist overtones here. It was common amongst my working class mates who will be middle aged now.
Poot
My wife thinks I work too hard
Yes, exactly that. It's an Everywoman name which is being used against every woman. It's like the dictionary definition of sexist nonsense.
JudithB
Well-Known Member
We survived. Hope you all did too
JudithB
Well-Known Member
Yes! And apologies for the late reply. Luckily there are a lot of black women in the US also called Karen and/or are seeing this for yet another way to call a woman a bitch but be "progressive". They are organising and they are starting to fight back
Whilst we're here, a selection of the better of the papers I've been reading recently. They're all linked through sci-hub.se which I have recently discovered provides access to every scientific paper for free.
I've been reading a lot of Angela McRobbie, who has a superb way of writing about how capitalism has fucked over feminism, providing a post-feminism that is designed around creating maximum consumption. Her book "the aftermath of feminism: gender, culture and social change", which I heartily recommend as a whole, comprises a bunch of papers she'd already published. This is a particularly good paper/chapter about "the post-feminist masquerade", in which " the fashion and beauty system appears to displace traditional modes of patriarchal authority":
In the above book, McRobbie talks of the "pathologisation of femininity", in which being female has become associated with a pathologised existence -- melancholy and damaged. This was taken on in this excellent if depressing paper by Amy Dobson about "performative shamelessness". Her point is that young women find themselves performing "shamelessness" on social media in an attempt to protect themselves from this pathologised femininity:
Finally, along similarly depressing lines, a paper about sexual agency amongst Latina girls in the US by Emily Mann. In short, the hegemonic representations of neoliberalism in which everybody is an individual capable of determining their own fate (including having sexual agency) run into the hard reality of being stigmatised as hypersexual and irresponsible. The result is a tough road.
I've been reading a lot of Angela McRobbie, who has a superb way of writing about how capitalism has fucked over feminism, providing a post-feminism that is designed around creating maximum consumption. Her book "the aftermath of feminism: gender, culture and social change", which I heartily recommend as a whole, comprises a bunch of papers she'd already published. This is a particularly good paper/chapter about "the post-feminist masquerade", in which " the fashion and beauty system appears to displace traditional modes of patriarchal authority":
In the above book, McRobbie talks of the "pathologisation of femininity", in which being female has become associated with a pathologised existence -- melancholy and damaged. This was taken on in this excellent if depressing paper by Amy Dobson about "performative shamelessness". Her point is that young women find themselves performing "shamelessness" on social media in an attempt to protect themselves from this pathologised femininity:
Finally, along similarly depressing lines, a paper about sexual agency amongst Latina girls in the US by Emily Mann. In short, the hegemonic representations of neoliberalism in which everybody is an individual capable of determining their own fate (including having sexual agency) run into the hard reality of being stigmatised as hypersexual and irresponsible. The result is a tough road.
what kind of behaviour might we deem as ‘shamelessness’ on social media ?
Read the paper and find out!
If anyone is interested I would like to discuss this video. It is controversial. The spoiler or trigger warning if you want one is that it will be seen as transphobic, homophobic and sexist, so if you personally will find this upsetting then it would be best if you didn’t watch it.
It’s delivered by a teacher at Eton- so you can see why I immediately thought it a good idea to post here. (He got sacked for it, incidentally).
The reason I want to discuss it is that I think a lot of it is true. I do think male and female humans are biologically, anatomically, psychologically, and socially different. I don’t think pretending that we are not is in women’s favour.
I still consider myself a feminist because I think that just because we are different, does not and should not mean that women are less than men. That we deserve equal civil rights, such as the vote and political representation, and that in many (but maybe not all) aspects of life it is advantageous to have both sexes alongside.
Id be interested to hear your views.
It’s delivered by a teacher at Eton- so you can see why I immediately thought it a good idea to post here. (He got sacked for it, incidentally).
The reason I want to discuss it is that I think a lot of it is true. I do think male and female humans are biologically, anatomically, psychologically, and socially different. I don’t think pretending that we are not is in women’s favour.
I still consider myself a feminist because I think that just because we are different, does not and should not mean that women are less than men. That we deserve equal civil rights, such as the vote and political representation, and that in many (but maybe not all) aspects of life it is advantageous to have both sexes alongside.
Id be interested to hear your views.
Dear God Edie. I've got through 11.5 minutes so far and its nails down a chalkboard unbearable.
Even if we try and ignore the obvious charisma blackhole we are left with what he is saying. I know you don't have to have any qualifications to be teacher at a private school (or background checks) but I do wonder what his subject was? It ain't history or philosophy that's for sure.
He seems obsessed by conflict, violence and war. I also feel like I was being lectured on what masculinity is and what it is to being a man. His reality I do not recognise at all. I don't recognise his depicture of male-ness and when I think about my girlfriend I think he's talking about another species than her.
Fuck! I think I'm being mansplained by a unpleasant derp. This is what happens if you start with a conclusion and work back from there.
Even if we try and ignore the obvious charisma blackhole we are left with what he is saying. I know you don't have to have any qualifications to be teacher at a private school (or background checks) but I do wonder what his subject was? It ain't history or philosophy that's for sure.
He seems obsessed by conflict, violence and war. I also feel like I was being lectured on what masculinity is and what it is to being a man. His reality I do not recognise at all. I don't recognise his depicture of male-ness and when I think about my girlfriend I think he's talking about another species than her.
Fuck! I think I'm being mansplained by a unpleasant derp. This is what happens if you start with a conclusion and work back from there.
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Treacle Toes
Time
Only 2 minutes in...
Challenging patriarchy and how those institutionalised & lived power dynamics negatively affect women's lives is not the same as 'rubbishing the very existence of men'. That's like saying talking about racism causes racism to exist. It's an excuse.
Challenging patriarchy and how those institutionalised & lived power dynamics negatively affect women's lives is not the same as 'rubbishing the very existence of men'. That's like saying talking about racism causes racism to exist. It's an excuse.
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