Far-right response to Southport Outrage And Ongoing Violent Disorder

[xenon]

I was listening to the radio earlier and heard the bit about Starmer calling for a 'standing army', which was alarming, his authoritarian streak goes deep.

He was referring to public order Police. A standing army of those officers who volunteer for this duty, who can be deployed across the country as per Police meutril aid agreements.

 

[RevolutionSound]

I'd guess you'd be more likely to see it in smaller places around the fringes of the city tbh. Apparently in Sheffield a small number showed up and sloped off looking sheepish when confronted by a much larger crowd, but then stuff pops up in Rotherham and the even smaller places near there. Probably a similar pattern in other cities.

Yeah, West Midlands has seen this shit in Tamworth and a lesser extent in Solihull. Not Birmingham though, there would be a bloodbath.

 

[RevolutionSound]

Talking of Brum

Unlikely I think, they'd get slaughtered

 

[Elpenor]

He was referring to public order Police. A standing army of those officers who volunteer for this duty, who can be deployed across the country as per Police meutril aid agreements.

Basically cancelling leave for anyone who is public order trained for the next few weeks while things calm down.

Long term; someone like Starmer might like the idea of a permanent specialist riot police force, perhaps held at regional hubs within an hour of major population centres. Probably similar arrangements in Europeans country

 

[hitmouse]

Fellow Brummie here, and I thought the same.

I hadn't seen any stuff going on here, but I may have missed it. I just thought if there had have been it would have been on the news, as a major city. My take was that they wouldn't dare, like other very diverse places, but maybe I'm being overly optimistic. I expect they would get a real kicking, as they would in London too I suspect.

I mean, I can see where you're coming from, but also is Birmingham that much tougher for them than Liverpool, Bristol or Manchester? Not an expert on the local terrain but I'd guess that the situation, like in most places, is probably that they'd be thoroughly outnumbered and outperformed if there's time for people to mobilise against them properly, but that there's potential for them to cause serious damage if they can either get a) decent numbers together at short enough notice that there's no time to organise a proper counter, or b) get a reasonably-sized crowd together and then hang around drinking and getting coked up until enough of the other side have got tired and gone home.
Different times and a different situation, but I remember the EDL managing to cause a fair bit of bother in Brum a decade ago:

Fifty sentenced for Birmingham EDL protest violence

Fifty people are sentenced for their part in violence that broke out during an English Defence League protest in Birmingham in 2013.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Talking of Brum

Is there a source for this or is it rumour?

That’s Small Heath. The fash will be obliterated if they go there.

 

[Wookey]

S’alright. I get it. I am also terrified by these mobs, though probably disproportiately so, compared to the people they are presently targetting. But brains are peculiar things and I spent all of yesterday afternoon fending off a panic attack, worrying about my work getting surrounded by violent drunks.

I hear you, I am (by choice) in a high Muslim population neighbourhood, and I'm feeling empathic anxiety for people who aren't 6ft 5 white men with baldy heeds. I'm at arms length, not in the firing line at all, and I'm still angsty.

Luckily, Salford and Eccles hasn't appeared on any of these target lists I'm reading...

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

And what locals use their local Holiday Inn? I mean, I know there’s several in Glasgow but I’ve never been in one!

I’ve been in inexpensive chain hotels when I’m travelling, though. On the way somewhere and need to break my journey. (Usually Premier Inn, but still). But “locally”? Why would I?

From what I've gathered, some of the complaints relate to the impact on wider businesses and loss of jobs. It's not that the local residents would be staying in the hotels, because they wouldn't be, but it's more that when hotels get contracts with the government to provide accommodation to asylum seekers, they pare back staffing, eg if an hotel had a bar and restaurant, they would be closed, and obviously without daily change over of guests, they no longer need housekeeping staff, and they generally won't have as many staff as they would if they were open to the public/short-term guests who expect higher levels of customer service, so there are local job losses.

Also, hotel guests might previously have given business to local pubs/restaurants/shops, which many asylum seekers won't be in a position to do financially, or wouldn't do for cultural reasons, so there's a wider impact on the local economy.

So those are the local impacts, on top of the more general grievances about the spending of public money on asylum seeker accommodation, etc.

 

[Pickman's model]

Basically cancelling leave for anyone who is public order trained for the next few weeks while things calm down.

Long term; someone like Starmer might like the idea of a permanent specialist riot police force, perhaps held at regional hubs within an hour of major population centres. Probably similar arrangements in Europeans country

tbh there are obvious difficulties with it - there's only a certain number of people with the 'right' temperament, health and qualifications within the police. the police are already in essence a 'standing army' ready to counter riots - every officer in the land is either level 1, 2 or 3 training, and they'd all organise into police support units of one level or another. but a permanent standing force runs the risk of all manner of discreditable behaviour. they already rotate tsg groups between carriers every 100 days or so to prevent cabals building up. this would only be a larger problem among a national force. and would these people be seconded from police forces? would they be recruited and trained separately from other police forces? it's a daft idea.

 

[Elpenor]

tbh there are obvious difficulties with it - there's only a certain number of people with the 'right' temperament, health and qualifications within the police. the police are already in essence a 'standing army' ready to counter riots - every officer in the land is either level 1, 2 or 3 training, and they'd all organise into police support units of one level or another. but a permanent standing force runs the risk of all manner of discreditable behaviour. they already rotate tsg groups between carriers every 100 days or so to prevent cabals building up. this would only be a larger problem among a national force. and would these people be seconded from police forces? would they be recruited and trained separately from other police forces? it's a daft idea.

Like a lot of ideas thought out in a few minutes it is daft but the shininess will appeal to politicians

 

[Smokeandsteam]

I mean, I can see where you're coming from, but also is Birmingham that much tougher for them than Liverpool, Bristol or Manchester? Not an expert on the local terrain but I'd guess that the situation, like in most places, is probably that they'd be thoroughly outnumbered and outperformed if there's time for people to mobilise against them properly, but that there's potential for them to cause serious damage if they can either get a) decent numbers together at short enough notice that there's no time to organise a proper counter, or b) get a reasonably-sized crowd together and then hang around drinking and getting coked up until enough of the other side have got tired and gone home.
Different times and a different situation, but I remember the EDL managing to cause a fair bit of bother in Brum a decade ago:

Fifty sentenced for Birmingham EDL protest violence

Fifty people are sentenced for their part in violence that broke out during an English Defence League protest in Birmingham in 2013.

www.bbc.co.uk

Don’t disagree with anything you’ve said there. It will depend absolutely depend on us getting the numbers and coordination.

That EDL event you reference was a case in point. The issue was that there were too many of us making it easy for the police to identify and kettle our side. That said, without the police it would have got very ugly for the fash very quickly.

There were also some unfortunate incidents when local Asian lads attacked some white anti fascists who’d turned up in support and were mistaken as fash. I think they were from the NEU.

So yes, no matter where it is unless there is proper organisation and strategy - and providing there are enough cops to protect them - they can pull of a result.

One last thing, we need good intelligence. Social media rumours, no matter how well intentioned, can cause confusion, disperse our side and send people off to non existent mobilisations

 

[ska invita]

"Boycott anything that's not English"

Wtf?

This kind of thing has also been doing the rounds....

 

[lengualo]

"Boycott anything that's not English"

Wtf?

Boycotting most fruit, chillis and spices?

 

[Pickman's model]

Like a lot of ideas thought out in a few minutes it is daft but the shininess will appeal to politicians

Let's say we had such a force today. Let's say it's a thousand strong. How would it be deployed in these circumstances, would there be a triage system or first come first served? What size of reserve would they keep back? And obvs you wouldn't have a thousand ready to roll, only ~250 with rest days etc. The other 600 or so would be rostered on other shifts. The tsg already undermine borough efforts to relate to their communities, a national force deployed for riots would clearly antagonise both communities and other cops. And perhaps most saliently what would they do when there aren't any riots?

 

[moochedit]

Yeah, West Midlands has seen this shit in Tamworth and a lesser extent in Solihull. Not Birmingham though, there would be a bloodbath.

Yeah i'm not aware of any incidents in coventry either (so far ).

 

[ddraig]

Is there a source for this or is it rumour?

That’s Small Heath. The fash will be obliterated if they go there.

Just sharing from a group, don't know any more sorry

 

[DaveCinzano]

And perhaps most saliently what would they do when there aren't any riots?

Sex crimes, petty theft, institutional racism?

 

[Elpenor]

Let's say we had such a force today. Let's say it's a thousand strong. How would it be deployed in these circumstances, would there be a triage system or first come first served? What size of reserve would they keep back? And obvs you wouldn't have a thousand ready to roll, only ~250 with rest days etc. The other 600 or so would be rostered on other shifts. The tsg already undermine borough efforts to relate to their communities, a national force deployed for riots would clearly antagonise both communities and other cops. And perhaps most saliently what would they do when there aren't any riots?

Exactly. I wasn't advocating for such a force

 

[skyscraper101]

This kind of thing has also been doing the rounds....

Encouraging people to uninstall food delivery apps will definitely work.

 

[emanymton]

This kind of thing has also been doing the rounds....
View attachment 436701

Soooo, not wanting to go down the route of they are all unemployed. But I expect a lot excist within a grey area betwern, unemployed, self-employed and criminality.

Do pretty sure this would hurt themselves the most.

 

[hitmouse]

Is there a source for this or is it rumour?

That’s Small Heath. The fash will be obliterated if they go there.

The second slide has a screenshot:

So it's definitely the case that some dickhead somewhere is trying to get "ALL BRITISH PATRIOTS" together to march through Small Heath, I can't say anything about whether anyone's paying attention to them or if it's just one crank though.

Don’t disagree with anything you’ve said there. It will depend absolutely depend on us getting the numbers and coordination.

That EDL event you reference was a case in point. The issue was that there were too many of us making it easy for the police to identify and kettle our side. That said, without the police it would have got very ugly for the fash very quickly.

There were also some unfortunate incidents when local Asian lads attacked some white anti fascists who’d turned up in support and were mistaken as fash. I think they were from the NEU.

So yes, no matter where it is unless there is proper organisation and strategy - and providing there are enough cops to protect them - they can pull of a result.

One last thing, we need good intelligence. Social media rumours, no matter how well intentioned, can cause confusion, disperse our side and send people off to non existent mobilisations

I fully agree on the last point, but it does feel particularly difficult to tell one from the other in this situation, where it doesn't feel like there are real organisers doing classical organising a la the old NF/BNP/even EDL to some extent, I think a lot of this just comes from wankers throwing calls out on social media and seeing what sticks.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Fellow Brummie here, and I thought the same.

I hadn't seen any stuff going on here, but I may have missed it. I just thought if there had have been it would have been on the news, as a major city. My take was that they wouldn't dare, like other very diverse places, but maybe I'm being overly optimistic. I expect they would get a real kicking, as they would in London too I suspect.

Hello!

In terms of here, there is a rumour that the fash will be in Small Heath/Alum Rock tonight. Have to be clear that this is not verified. I can’t help but think that this is an attempt by them to wind those communities up and to get them out onto the streets and into confrontation with the cops.

There is also the rumoured protest on Frederick St on 17th. There will be a mobilisation for that - but again I’m not convinced that this is anything more than rumour or them trying to give us the run around.

 

[Skinny Ethel]

Turnip and mash tea . British reared shorthorn mince and mash chips and whelks as long as they stay within 50 yards off our coast. No kebabs pizzas from now on. This will bring them to there knees. As for alcohol and british grown cocaine etc .

 

[Pickman's model]

Exactly. I wasn't advocating for such a force

i understand that. it's just there's so many arguments against, so few in favour.

turning from this to the wider picture, i wonder whether there have been attempts made by the people fuelling the incursions on social media to poke and prod, to get some nature of the police capability to respond to trouble. if that's the case, that they wanted to get the measure of the police in a range of areas, then certain places may see rather more of this in the future. certainly if i was someone like syl or paul golding i'd be keeping track of which areas performed worse than others to pay subsequent visits.

 

[breadandcircuse]

Is there a source for this or is it rumour?

That’s Small Heath. The fash will be obliterated if they go there.

I've just seen elsewhere that a message has been sent out from a GP surgery there saying they will be closing at 4 as there is a "protest" planned to go through Bordesley Green, Alum Rock and Small Heath starting at 5. It is warning folk to get home safely and avoid the area.

Bastards .

 

[Smokeandsteam]

fully agree on the last point, but it does feel particularly difficult to tell one from the other in this situation, where it doesn't feel like there are real organisers doing classical organising a la the old NF/BNP/even EDL to some extent, I think a lot of this just comes from wankers throwing calls out on social media and seeing what sticks.

That’s my take as well. Keyboard wankers putting this stuff out and hoping someone will turn up.

 

[Wookey]

Boycotting most fruit, chillis and spices?

Someone should do an unpacking video of a boycott bag, just what would a week's shopping look like, with just English-origin products?

Answer, it would look fucking dreadful. And that could be played up for humour. As a way to highlight the utter ridonkulousness of the boycott idea.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

I've just seen elsewhere that a message has been sent out from a GP surgery there saying they will be closing at 4 as there is a "protest" planned to go through Bordesley Green, Alum Rock and Small Heath starting at 5. It is warning folk to get home safely and avoid the area.

Bastards .

That’s all there is: a lot of messages flying around from local NHS staff. The only hard ‘evidence’ is that screenshot Hitmouse posted.

What worries me is that at 5.00pm will be loads of local Asian lads out on the street and the cops and no fash.

ETA: this appears to suggest it’s bullshit..

 

[moochedit]

That’s my take as well. Keyboard wankers putting this stuff out and hoping someone will turn up.

Yes this article said same...

The far right has moved online, where its voice is more dangerous than ever

Social media such as X are facilitating the growth of extremism by allowing its figureheads a platform to direct violence

www.theguardian.com

 

[breadandcircuse]

This is the message someone received from their GP surgery.



I can understand them being extra cautious though, and it may turn out to be as you say, just keyboard wankers.