ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
Why on earth would anyone want to fight a standing stone?
They wouldn't. Because they'd lose.
EU referendum for dummies?
- Thread starter Thora
- Start date
They wouldn't. Because they'd lose.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Nope, I can see the top of the page but it is frozen and crashed, I can't scroll down to read the article or close the page. I am on someone else's machine, might come back to it this evening when I am back on my own PC.
ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
Nope. Mega intended.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Unless they were Obelix.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
A trip to dictionaryland beckons
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Well worth the wait...IMO; it's a good read.
ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
A trip to metaphor land is better. I'll pick my own thanks.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
You meant monolith, you plum.
Both rocks. I'm sticking with mega cus it sounds meaner.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Really the only way to reduce the issues of the referendum into a "for dummies" argument, is to simply restate what is on the ballot paper.
Do you want to remain in or leave the European Union?
[ ] Remain
[ ] Leave
If you want to go any deeper then you have to get into what the European Union is and what our position in it implies for the future, compared to what may happen if we leave. And that becomes rather complex.
Do you want to remain in or leave the European Union?
[ ] Remain
[ ] Leave
If you want to go any deeper then you have to get into what the European Union is and what our position in it implies for the future, compared to what may happen if we leave. And that becomes rather complex.
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SaskiaJayne
Rural Guerrilla
Excellent article, thanks for posting.
Obediah Marsh
Active Member
"The collapse of the EU would, however, be hard to contain and the shock would be felt around the world."
This greatly overstates the importance of the EU, as does the comparison to the USSR and Hapsburg empire. The EU doesn't have a government, it doesn't have a foreign policy, it doesn't have an army, it has no ideology, it commands no popular loyalty. It's a free trade area with a currency. Period.
This greatly overstates the importance of the EU, as does the comparison to the USSR and Hapsburg empire. The EU doesn't have a government, it doesn't have a foreign policy, it doesn't have an army, it has no ideology, it commands no popular loyalty. It's a free trade area with a currency. Period.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Well, of course, such hypothetical speculation is all up for debate, but I'd imagine that any full-blown collapse would rock the globalised economy...after all, the EU does have an ideology; neoliberalism.
friendofdorothy
Solidarity against neoliberalism!
The more I here the likes of Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage and other rich people tell me why I should want to leave, the more it tells me about why we should stay.
Obediah Marsh
Active Member
Many, many people were willing to die for the Soviet Union or the House of Hapsburg. How many would give their lives to save the EU?
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
...but then the more I hear the likes of David Cameron and George Osborne and other rich people tell me why I should want to stay, the more it tells me about why we should leave.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Not many, I'd imagine...but surely, that's a good thing, no?
friendofdorothy
Solidarity against neoliberalism!
The more I hear Cameron telling me why we should stay, the more I think why the fuck did you call this referendum.
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
As opposed to the likes of Cameron, Osborne, the banking/finance sector and other rich people wanting us to stay?
Puddy_Tat
naturally fluffy
it's difficult. we're also getting told by the likes of tony blair and david cameron that we should stay...
ultimately, there isn't a single argument either for stay or to leave - Dennis Skinner's reasons for 'leave' are not the same as Nigel Farrago's, for example.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
On behalf of the 'Urban 81' (17.7%)...I'd point out that I've heard no rich people calling for abstain...just saying.
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
There are two plates of shit in front of you. One is boiled, the other is fried. Choose which one you'd like to eat.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
And what about the leadership of the Conservative Party, all the Blairite fucks in the Labour Party, the LidDems, the Bank of England, the IMF, the CBI, HSBC, BAE, the British Bankers Association, the Institute of Directors, etc telling you to Remain?
Vote for Remain if you want but don't do it in the belief that Capital is supporting Leave, it isn't. It's overwhelming backing Remain.
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weltweit
Well-Known Member
Just read it, interesting article.
At the moment though I am contemplating the possible break up of the UK as a result of an out vote which would be disaster enough for me this month/year. While it is interesting to discuss the possibility of an EU breakup, the UK is on the table right now.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
when the greeks voted in a left wing anti austerity agenda led party the turnout was one of greeces highest. They tried to renegotiate the debt. The idea being I will pay you back but stop lending me money to pay of interest on what you've lent me. I'll give you it back eventually, keep me solvent long enough to implement mild social democratic things They had an in/out poll and stayed in because I don't know why. Have some unformed ideas. But either way they got fucked right ober. ECB could have printed all the money it liked for them had it not been a leftish party in power. Thats as simple as I can see it and I've read different and more complex takes and looked at all the aspects. But at the end of the day after what they did/are doing to greece then its a finished project for me. Its a trading vehicle, nothing more.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
If you're ever at a loose end...this is an interesting account of what happened. (don't know if you have to be a subscriber to see it?)
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
bookmarked. But i watched the rise and fall with my ever niave heart in mouth and read a lengthly post mortem in left review.
e2a, no need to sub it goes straight to the article in your link
FFS I just started reading and saw it was the same damn article posted on the greece thread that I am on about! we have discussed it on that thread. Scatterbrain me.
bah. Its been a long seven days housesitting
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redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
This post makes absolutely no sense. You can't have read the article very carefully, the whole point is that this referendum is part of the wider trauma that is currently affecting the EU and which may lead to it's breakup. The possible withdrawal of the UK isn't a separate event.
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