EU referendum for dummies?

[Pickman's model]

Do I?

Yes, because you just said the only way to leave the EU would be through a referendum whereas a decision by Athens to leave the euro and return to the drachma would likely have the same effect.

 

[Cid]

I didn't say anything about the difficulty of such an action. I said it wasn't going to happen in practice. Because it won't.

Why not? And why is another referendum also an impossibility?

 

[2hats]

there's always this approach

Apropos the thread question: yes, yes it is.

PS keep up.

 

[Pickman's model]

I never said it would be.

Why nor reread the last couple of pages and note where you've not been talking about referenda.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Yes, because you just said the only way to leave the EU would be through a referendum whereas a decision by Athens to leave the euro and return to the drachma would likely have the same effect.

I'm talking about the possibilities of the UK leaving the EU. That's the whole point of the thread, you know. Here, in the UK the options to leave in our lifetimes are through this referendum. That's it.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

PS keep up.

maybe we need a referendum on which thread to follow

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Why nor reread the last couple of pages and note where you've not been talking about referenda.

I know what I've been talking about because I wrote it all. I think you need to re-read it yourself to figure out where you've misunderstood me.

 

[Pickman's model]

I never said it would be.

Yeh cos the UK government really going to renationalising the railways through parliament even tho that would be against laws to which the govt has signed up, even though not all owners of UK railways are UK entities...

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Yeh cos the UK government really going to renationalising the railways through parliament even tho that would be against laws to which the govt has signed up, even though not all owners of UK railways are UK entities...

Signed up for whilst in the EU. Signed up to not be able to reverse... whilst in the EU. It is EU legislation that prevents this.

 

[Pickman's model]

I know what I've been talking about because I wrote it all. I think you need to re-read it yourself to figure out where you've misunderstood me.

to recap: by electorate you mean turnout. You are happy with a result in which perhaps 1/4 registered voters support a proposal to be binding on the rest. You seem to have a rather idiosyncratic idea of democracy

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Why not? And why is another referendum also an impossibility?

Unlikely and improbable (unless we vote to leave, in which case they may well just ask us again until they get the answer they like. Just as happened in Ireland with the Lisbon treaty).

 

[Pickman's model]

Signed up for whilst in the EU. Signed up to not be able to reverse... whilst in the EU. It is EU legislation that prevents this.

Yes. So your guff about renationalising railways a non-starter atm without a referendum.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

to recap: by electorate you mean turnout. You are happy with a result in which perhaps 1/4 registered voters support a proposal to be binding on the rest. You seem to have a rather idiosyncratic idea of democracy

God you're an insufferable bore.

 

[Pickman's model]

God you're an insufferable bore.

and out with the ad hominems when the ability to offer an argument evaporates.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Thinks he's some sort of Socratic gadfly nibbling away at the foundations of other peoples' ideas. He's a hero in his own head.

 

[Cid]

Unlikely and improbable (unless we vote to leave, in which case they may well just ask us again until they get the answer they like. Just as happened in Ireland with the Lisbon treaty).

Why? Why couldn't a strong left-wing government prevented from nationalising industries call a referendum? Why couldn't a referendum be called if the last vestiges of worker protection were removed? The latter case obviously depends on the government at the time, but it's at least going to raise a strong prima facie case for a referendum.

 

[Pickman's model]

Thinks he's some sort of Socratic gadfly nibbling away at the foundations of other peoples' ideas. He's a hero in his own head.

oh dear my concept of self is punctured to the core I wish I could say I'd been nibbling at the foundations of your ideas but they appear based on bluster more than anything else.

 

[Pickman's model]

Unlikely and improbable (unless we vote to leave, in which case they may well just ask us again until they get the answer they like. Just as happened in Ireland with the Lisbon treaty).

Given the consensus appears that this is a one referendum question on what concrete evidence do you base your supposition there could be a second vote? Especially as there is no provision in the UK for referenda similar to that existing in Ireland or Denmark..

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Why? Why couldn't a strong left-wing government prevented from nationalising industries call a referendum? Why couldn't a referendum be called if the last vestiges of worker protection were removed? The latter case obviously depends on the government at the time, but it's at least going to raise a strong prima facie case for a referendum.

I guess that is a possible scenario, you're right. Much more likely than a UK government unilaterally leaving, which is something I just don't see happening.

 

[Cid]

I guess that is a possible scenario, you're right. Much more likely than a UK government unilaterally leaving, which is something I just don't see happening.

An out-and-out leave bill is unlikely but it would be an option if there was a substantial change in the relationship to the EU. The main point is that the 'this is the only chance we'll ever have' argument doesn't really hold up.

 

[weltweit]

An out-and-out leave bill is unlikely but it would be an option if there was a substantial change in the relationship to the EU. The main point is that the 'this is the only chance we'll ever have' argument doesn't really hold up.

I believe if we vote remain, we will have plenty of other chances of leaving.
But if we vote leave, that will be it.

 

[brogdale]

I believe if we vote remain, we will have plenty of other chances of leaving.
But if we vote leave, that will be it.

If the UK votes to leave that will be it, because the whole edifice will then start to disintegrate.

 

[weltweit]

If the UK votes to leave that will be it, because the whole edifice will then start to disintegrate.

Surely the Euro zone could survive without the UK which isn't even a member?

 

[brogdale]

Surely the Euro zone could survive without the UK which isn't even a member?

Maybe, maybe not.

 

[Pickman's model]

Surely the Euro zone could survive without the UK which isn't even a member?

Yeh. But if they lose the say £180m/wk income the shortfall will need to come from somewhere

 

[weltweit]

Maybe, maybe not.

I can't read that page, somat doesne' work!

 

[brogdale]

I can't read that page, somat doesne' work!

A crisis without end

hth

 

[ViolentPanda]

Fighting against a megalith like the EU is impossible.

Why on earth would anyone want to fight a standing stone?

 

[Pickman's model]

I can't read that page, somat doesne' work!

Works for me

 

[Pickman's model]

Why on earth would anyone want to fight a standing stone?

Perhaps mono intended