EU referendum for dummies?

[gosub]

A lot of the difficulties are because no one can be sure what will happen if the UK votes leave. Remainers say, we need to remain in the single market, yet leavers say we will still have access to the single market if we leave (which will have to be negotiated). To which remainers say but, if so, you won't have the ability to shape the rules of the market and will have to accept freedom of movement of people.

Is more nuanced than that the official out is access to single market : same as China, Japan, US (ie rest of the world), that doesn't come with freedom of movement. The leave argument you have come across on this this site (and possibly elsewhere) that you steadfastly ignore : Leave the EU and we are still part of the Single Market due to our EEA membership, this does mean accepting freedom of movement. - the actual nature of a leave is down to the government not any leave campaigners and would have to pass through UK Parliament.

Single Market follows rules set by over arching global governance (not government, Ban ki-moon isn't secretly ruling the world) stuff like CODEX and BCBS. Leave and we get our own voice back at this over arching level.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Oh dear. Regardless of what the other c.350m voters in the EU think? Very democratic.

If a law relates to the UK alone, then what have those 350 million people got to do with it?

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Oh and you know already the result on 23 June WILL NOT be the verdict of the majority of the UK electorate.

It will be of the ones that make the choice to vote though. Those that don't vote have only themselves to blame.

 

[Pickman's model]

If a law relates to the UK alone, then what have those 350 million people got to do with it?

Even tho 20m of them are in the UK what law have you in mind?

 

[Cid]

If a law relates to the UK alone, then what have those 350 million people got to do with it?

How much legislation relates to the UK alone?

 

[Pickman's model]

It will be of the ones that make the choice to vote though. Those that don't vote have only themselves to blame.

So you are happy where a quarter of the actual electorate make decisions binding on everyone. What a strange idea of democracy you have.

 

[Cid]

Yeah, because referendums are like two-a-penny.



Not in practice, now the precedent has been set for holding a referendum on the issue (twice).

A government with a decent majority and internal cohesion can do pretty much whatever it wants.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Even tho 20m of them are in the UK what law have you in mind?

What the fuck are you waffling on about? I'm talking about decisions made at a European level over-riding decisions made at a national one. Re-nationalising privatised industries, for example. Herr Gruber living in a suburb of Ulm has fuck all to do with such a decision, so why should their opinion count?

 

[Puddy_Tat]

there's always this approach

 

[bluescreen]

Thora You may find this more useful than our bickering. The UK's EU referendum: All you need to know - BBC News

 

[Pickman's model]

What the fuck are you waffling on about? I'm talking about decisions made at a European level over-riding decisions made at a national one. Re-nationalising privatised industries, for example. Herr Gruber living in a suburb of Ulm has fuck all to do with such a decision, so why should their opinion count?

Because it isn't something only affecting the UK.

Next.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Because it isn't something only affecting the UK.

Next.

Yeah it is.

 

[Pickman's model]

Yeah it is.

Because...

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Because...

You're the one making the bold claim that decisions about nationalising British industries has a massive impact on the rest of Europe. It's on you to back that claim up.

 

[Pickman's model]

You're the one making the bold claim that decisions about nationalising British industries has a massive impact on the rest of Europe. It's on you to back that claim up.

No, it's your example of a purely national decision. Before I knock your stupid example down you might like to present your reasoning that among other things a referendum an appropriate means for such a decision.

 

[Thora]

there's always this approach

I guess essentially I will take that approach (if I vote at all). I'm still not clear on what the left leave argument is though.

 

[Thora]

Maybe I just need to find someone whose opinion I trust and ask them how I should vote. Mr. Thora is no use

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

No, it's your example of a purely national decision. Before I knock your stupid example down you might like to present your reasoning that among other things a referendum an appropriate means for such a decision.

There is no other means to leave the EU other than a referendum. Go ahead and 'knock down' my example then mate. Why would, for example, renationalising the trains be something that the European Commission/Parliament get a say on? Why should the rest of Europe get a say?

 

[Cid]

There is no other means to leave the EU other than a referendum.

There clearly is. Governments are not bound by precedent.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

There clearly is. Governments are not bound by precedent.

Well technically yes, the government could unilaterally declare they were leaving the EU. Also, moonbats could descend from the skies and haul the British Isles off to the far side of Andromeda. In all practicality though, this referendum is it. This is the point when staying or leaving is possible in our lifetimes.

 

[Pickman's model]

Meaning that if the majority of the UK electorate demand something then we are able to get it regardless of what MEPs/commisioners from other countries say.

I must say this sounds like a referendum to me on something less than departure from the eu

 

[Cid]

Well technically yes, the government could unilaterally declare they were leaving the EU. Also, moonbats could descend from the skies and haul the British Isles off to the far side of Andromeda. In all practicality though, this referendum is it. This is the point when staying or leaving is possible in our lifetimes.

It's no more difficult than repealing any other piece of legislation.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

I must say this sounds like a referendum to me on something less than departure from the eu

What the fuck are you on about?

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

It's no more difficult than repealing any other piece of legislation.

I didn't say anything about the difficulty of such an action. I said it wasn't going to happen in practice. Because it won't.

 

[Pickman's model]

What the fuck are you on about?

I am looking at your earlier posts and reminding you of statements you made earlier in the thread inconsistent with your later posts.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

I am looking at your earlier posts and reminding you of statements you made earlier in the thread inconsistent with your later posts.

Go on.

 

[Pickman's model]

There is no other means to leave the EU other than a referendum. Go ahead and 'knock down' my example then mate. Why would, for example, renationalising the trains be something that the European Commission/Parliament get a say on? Why should the rest of Europe get a say?

So if Greece left the euro you believe they'd remain in the eu

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

So if Greece left the euro you believe they'd remain in the eu

Do I?

 

[Pickman's model]

Go on.

Yes. So, as I say, I would like to see your reasoning that a referendum would be an appropriate means of deciding whether to renationalising e.g. the railways

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Yes. So, as I say, I would like to see your reasoning that a referendum would be an appropriate means of deciding whether to renationalising e.g. the railways

I never said it would be.