EnglishWelsh Defence League, British Campaign agin Muslim Extremist, Causuals United

[Raw SslaC]

what do you actually recommend? you've been utterly silent on that. you merrily repeat all their press releseases uncritically, and are happy to go along with their claims about being nothing to do with the BNP, but as for actual proposals....

Durruti is right, this is a complex issues because we are meant to choose between two distinct opposing sides. This is not the 1970's! There are extremely reactionary, racist and dangerous elements in both sides that will parasite off the main organisations EDL and UAF for political purposes. The EDL know this thats why they made a good attempt to dissuade far-right politicos from getting involved but the issue is that they are based and organised around fighting "firms" who inherently are autonomous when it comes to deciding what to do. The UAF have shown a complete irresponsibility to the defence. They had a small number of stewards (in the trot not antifascist sense) and therefore were powerless to make an organised defence, this did lead - it seems - to a few attacks by opportunists on just randon young white lads.

The priorty must be at this stage to have organised defence not 15 year-olds with too much testosterone all hyped up and potentially risking a long stretch if they get caught.

p.s. the trades council had sticks and bottles thrown at them when they turned up as people thought they were the BNP!!

 

[durruti02]

what do you actually recommend? you've been utterly silent on that. you merrily repeat all their press releseases uncritically, and are happy to go along with their claims about being nothing to do with the BNP, but as for actual proposals....

seriously i am not sure yet .. i think this may well be a provocation from a number of sources.

and ffs i am reprinting their stuff to save people the bloody time I have spent on it of ye of little faith

 

[belboid]

The EDL know this thats why they made a good attempt to dissuade far-right politicos from getting involved

you think that was genuine??!! that strikes me as astoundingly naive

 

[Spion]

those like Spion who happily spunk away at theior keyboard whilst real life gets played out are a joke.

Sorry, what have I actually said that you disagree with here?

 

[Fedayn]

Sorry, what have I actually said that you disagree with here?

You're whooping it up at the results of the UAF winding people up. Thinking that somehow the picture of peo[ple getting attacked by 5/6/7/8 people whilst on the ground is some great victory for anti-fascism. The idea that PR boosts for the BNP are somehow a good thing.

 

[Spion]

You're whooping it up at the results of the UAF winding people up.

I think it was a good thing that this EDL demo was prevented from effectively spouting its racist shit and from potentially going on the rampage and attacking ethnic minorities. Don't you?

Thinking that somehow the picture of peo[ple getting attacked by 5/6/7/8 people whilst on the ground is some great victory for anti-fascism.

Now you're in fantasy land. Where did I say this? If they were racists from the EDL demo they got what was coming to them. If not then it is deplorable to attack people willy nilly. But, on this, you'll note that the eyewitness reports higher up the thread said that white people were not attacked randomly (tho there may have been one or two exceptions, and that's something that only better organisation on the day can deal with.)

The idea that PR boosts for the BNP are somehow a good thing.

The best propaganda victory of the day sent the message - "if you think you can come on these EDL demos to have a go at the pakis and get away with it with impunity, think again"

BTW, was the SP involved in this?

 

[Fedayn]

I think it was a good thing that this EDL demo was prevented from effectively spouting its racist shit and from potentially going on the rampage and attacking ethnic minorities. Don't you?

Now you're in fantasy land. Where did I say this? If they were racists from the EDL demo they got what was coming to them. If not then it is deplorable to attack people willy nilly. But, on this, you'll note that the eyewitness reports higher up the thread said that white people were not attacked randomly (tho there may have been one or two exceptions, and that's something that only better organisation on the day can deal with.)

The best propaganda victory of the day sent the message - "if you think you can come on these EDL demos to have a go at the pakis and get away with it with impunity, think again"

BTW, was the SP involved in this?

I personally wish it hadn't gone ahead. But the TV/press images are not what some great victory, lone people being leatherd, this IS what happened. You can put them down to mistakes, but mistakes like this are now travelling round the world underlined with far-right replies, hardly a coup for anti-fascism at all.

Have a pop at everyone who's got a racist opinion? Why not do this with some of the cunts like Chaudhury and his ilk? Neither side are on the side of the working-class.
I also think that the EDL demo was likely to have received short-shrift even if the UAF hadn't whipped it up a bit more. It's perfectly possible to see what actually happebned instead of whooping it up from elsewhere.
No, the best propaganda of the day was a young lad on the floor getting a shoeing of 5/6/7 asian/black lads.... Sadly that propaganda wasn't for the Left/wiorking-class.
No idea if the SP were involved, ask someone who's a member.

 

[Spion]

I personally wish it hadn't gone ahead.

You might get your wish. I notice the EDL/CU site has said it won't organise through Facebook again and will not publicise it's next event in advance. I reckon the cops will also be less likely to allow them to do these things in future given the response the EDL/CU got, largely from politically unafilliated ethnic minority youth. And if that's what happens I will be happy that a group that tries to equate all Muslims with terror bombers will have been stopped from publically whipping people up.

Soz, I thought you were SP

 

[Fedayn]

You might get your wish. I notice the EDL/CU site has said it won't organise through Facebook again and will not publicise it's next event in advance. I reckon the cops will also be less likely to allow them to do these things in future given the response the EDL/CU got, largely from politically unafilliated ethnic minority youth. And if that's what happens I will be happy that a group that tries to equate all Muslims with terror bombers will have been stopped from publically whipping people up.

I have no care for the EDL lot, but the claim that it';s a 'victory' without a thought for how it plays out, for how it will be received and seized upon by the BNP is where I have my real concerns.

Soz, I thought you were SP

Many years ago yes, left in 2000.

 

[sonny61]

The best propaganda victory of the day sent the message - "if you think you can come on these EDL demos to have a go at the pakis and get away with it with impunity, think again"

It's macho bullshit like that, which will mean it will happen again.
30th August for the next demo in Brum, according to rumors on the Internet.

I am still to be convinced that those lone white males being kicked in the head by Asians, had anything to do with the demo.
They were all robbed as well apparently.

The pictures are being pinged all over the Internet, those brave warriors kicking lone men on their own in the head on the floor, should expect the Old Bill to be becoming through their door at 5am in the morning.

Meanwhile those in the UAF and SWP who got the crowd going by talking about a BNP demo, which they knew was a lie, won't get touched by the Old Bil. If there was justice they would be nicked for incitement.

With those pictures all over the Internet, race relations has just took a turn for the worse in this country. Well done the UAF and the SWP.

 

[Spion]

I have no care for the EDL lot, but the claim that it';s a 'victory' without a thought for how it plays out, for how it will be received and seized upon by the BNP is where I have my real concerns.

My main concern is that a far right grouping that wants to whip up white youth in a thinly veiled attack on Asians that could result in racist attacks is not allowed to do so. How individual events that form part of that play in the wider media or on right wing websites is down the priority list for me. I mean, there's always the possibility of someone rightly getting a kicking being portrayed as an innocent victim and vice versa, so you'll never win that game

 

[Spion]

It's macho bullshit like that, which will mean it will happen again.

Yeah, like I'm that influential Anyway, it's the EDL/CU that have the decision over whether they do what they did again.

Quite rightly, a lot of people do not like groups of racists standing around their city centre shouting slogans that equate all Asians/Muslims as bombers.

 

[sonny61]

Yeah, like I'm that influential Anyway, it's the EDL/CU that have the decision over whether they do what they did again.

Quite rightly, a lot of people do not like groups of racists standing around their city centre shouting slogans that equate all Asians/Muslims as bombers.

Manchester, Luton, Dunstable and Birmingham again, plans for next EDL demos

 

[Spion]

Manchester, Luton, Dunstable and Birmingham again, plans for next EDL demos

What's your point, sonny?

 

[Garcia Lorca]

Manchester, Luton, Dunstable and Birmingham again, plans for next EDL demos

birmingham on the 30th of this month..

I do fear that the "counter" protest at the weekend will only encourage more to turn out for edl/cu next time round. they couldnt get better publicity than the videos/photos that are kicking around after the weekend.

 

[Fedayn]

Quite rightly, a lot of people do not like groups of racists standing around their city centre shouting slogans that equate all Asians/Muslims as bombers.

Which includes those of us who have grave concerns about what happened on Saturday and the consequent propaganda boost for the BNP.

 

[Spion]

Which includes those of us who have grave concerns about what happened on Saturday and the consequent propaganda boost for the BNP.

So what do you do about it?

I see no alternative to being involved and making sure the message that random attacks are unacceptable is spread as widely as possible in the counter demo

 

[sonny61]

What's your point, sonny?

The point being they have not been put off, the reverse it seems.
Maybe next time they might bring some muscle.

I am really concern how this is going to play out in the months to come, after the Weekend events, and those awful photos.

 

[DotCommunist]

The point being they have not been put off, the reverse it seems.
Maybe next time they might bring some muscle.

I am really concern how this is going to play out in the months to come, after the Weekend events, and those awful photos.

I don't see what alternatives there are to opposition though.

Unless anyone is genuinely buying the 'we ain't racist guv, honest' line. Which I am not buying at all.

 

[Fedayn]

So what do you do about it?

I see no alternative to being involved and making sure the message that random attacks are unacceptable is spread as widely as possible in the counter demo

Certainly don't whip asian/black youth up. If asian/black youth independently do their own thing then that's just too bad for the EDL. But now, given the antics of the SWP/UAF, their bragging how it's a victory etc etc the Left could well get be 'seen' as defending Islamists and attacking critics. This is not just about dishing a few slaps out and bragging about doing the 'kuffar' as some seem pleased to see. it's also about how it plays in a wider sense.

 

[Raw SslaC]

you think that was genuine??!! that strikes me as astoundingly naive

I was there. I saw what happened. The BNP boycotted the event, so did the NF and the few boneheads that turned up. Next time it will be different I think, its now bigger than EDL/CU.

Word has it that August 29th in Harrow and August 30th in Luton are CANCELLED, The big push is for BRUM on August 30th.

 

[treelover]

what sources are you using?

 

[treelover]

Surely going back to Brum on the 30th can only be for 'revenge', they have made their point there such as it is, (the EDl, that is) what a nightmare.

 

[belboid]

I was there. I saw what happened. The BNP boycotted the event, so did the NF and the few boneheads that turned up.

sorry, boneheads boycotted the event by turning up???

 

[treelover]

A question


If Choudry and co can have the right to march then isn't it consistent that another group opposing Islamic Fundamentalism also have that right, leaving aside who the group may consist of, just the principle...

 

[The39thStep]

statement from EDL http://www.englishdefenceleague.org/edl-news-080809.html

Latest News 10/08/09

The English Defence League condemn violence, unless in self defence.

In Birmingham on Saturday, the UAF (who Still believe we are a racist BNP front) Stirred up the local mixed race community into believing we were the BNP.

We have a lot of work to do to change public opinion of our group, but we are getting tired of being associated with any political parties.

We would gladly march alongside any Muslim, Jewish in fact ANY other group regardless of colour, shape, sex etc etc who agree with our 2 main issues.

1. STOP ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALISTS/EXTREMISTS

2. STOP IMPOSING SHARI'AH LAW

Is there anyone who doesn't really agree with both issues ? The trouble is tactically them marching isn't going to have much effect on either.

 

[cantsin]

What's your point, sonny?

that it's all the leftys / asians / blacks fault - it always is with him - waste of space

 

[lostexpectation]

who is imposing shariah law

i thought protest was against what chaudry did with the boy, was that extreme, fundamentalist, terrorism, bombing?

 

[moon23]

Is there anyone who doesn't really agree with both issues ? The trouble is tactically them marching isn't going to have much effect on either.

If there hadn't been a counter-demo who would have heard of them? Instead they have been launched into the media who have jumped on it as a story of racial tensions being stoked up. This in turns stokes up racial tensions.

They are keeping to a strong line about not being racist and simply opposing extermism so the best method of defeating this group would actually be entryism amongst left and muslim groups or simply ignoring them so only a handful of people who actually see the protest hear about it.

 

[Raw SslaC]

sorry, boneheads boycotted the event by turning up???

4 boneheads turned up, all looking the part. Took one look at the "Black and White Unite" banner of the EDL and left.