EnglishWelsh Defence League, British Campaign agin Muslim Extremist, Causuals United

[durruti02]

I think it was a good thing that this EDL demo was prevented from effectively spouting its racist shit and from potentially going on the rampage and attacking ethnic minorities. Don't you?

Now you're in fantasy land. Where did I say this? If they were racists from the EDL demo they got what was coming to them. If not then it is deplorable to attack people willy nilly. But, on this, you'll note that the eyewitness reports higher up the thread said that white people were not attacked randomly (tho there may have been one or two exceptions, and that's something that only better organisation on the day can deal with.)

The best propaganda victory of the day sent the message - "if you think you can come on these EDL demos to have a go at the pakis and get away with it with impunity, think again"

BTW, was the SP involved in this?

please educate yourself before spouting nonsense on here

1) the edl demo DID go ahead and was quite clear ( if honest i do not know) that it was ANTI-racist and ANTI-nazi

2) those involved in the street fights were NOT overtly associated with EDL

3) whatever

4) not that i could see at all

 

[durruti02]

you think that was genuine??!! that strikes me as astoundingly naive

have you seen the pictures? of the placards? 'black and white unite' 'we hate nazis etc' 'we are not bnp we are not racist' .. ok so tell me what is going on. you think it is simply a big con trick? maybe maybe not

 

[Blagsta]

have you seen the pictures? of the placards? 'black and white unite' 'we hate nazis etc' 'we are not bnp we are not racist' .. ok so tell me what is going on. you think it is simply a big con trick? maybe maybe not

black and white unite can still be racist if they unite against asians. There is considerable racism from some black people towards asians in Birmingham

 

[durruti02]

Was any literature passed out? Did anyone aside from the far-right criticise political islam?[/QUOTE i didn't pick up the uaf leaflets but there was an anonymous photocopied one saying "say no to edl bnp" which made the correct point that 'the bnp .. have a lot in common with islamic extremism .. etc' interestingly as i say it was anonymous

 

[durruti02]

UAF statement might as well be titled Full steam ahead into the trap.

indeed ..

 

[durruti02]

Oh what twaddle.

The EDL/CU are an organised attempt to demonise British muslims/Asians, which was clear from their 'Muslim bombers off our streets' chants. It's the organised manifestation of the kind of twats who shout 'bomber' at Asians in the street (which has been a pretty common thing you hear and hear about where I live).

The issues are clear to me, but yeah, but real life's messy - especially when the victims of racist name-calling decide to fight back, and I'm surprised so many are shitting their pants over this.

organised by who? and btw do you think no one should be angry that members of their community are prepared to blow them up?? you live in west yorks? one of the bombers came from dewsbury .. what goes round comes round

btw and what is it you do politically again??

 

[durruti02]

A trap maybe, but what was the alternative to what UAF did which would also have upheld the principle of No Platform?. To try to physically stop the fascist demo was the only option on the table

hang on are you saying UAF should have trashed the EDL demo!!! oh boy that would have been great .. asian ( the white lefties hanging back) attacking banners saying 'black and white unite .. we are not racist.. we are not nazis .. etc"

 

[belboid]

have you seen the pictures? of the placards? 'black and white unite' 'we hate nazis etc' 'we are not bnp we are not racist' .. ok so tell me what is going on. you think it is simply a big con trick? maybe maybe not

plenty there were clearly straightforward racist fuckwits. a few had a bit of gumption about them, and knew it was best to try to pretend otherwise, and a small number were probably quite genuine. In only being racist against people from a presumed muslim background

 

[durruti02]

black and white unite can still be racist if they unite against asians. There is considerable racism from some black people towards asians in Birmingham

yes very true .. all the placards can equally taken as a wind up against muslims .. there were also ones attacking islamic attitudes to gays and female genital mutilation

 

[Fedayn]

this is entirely possible.

But the uaf introduced, in fact shoehorned in, political issues that were never part of of the dynamic. Without the uaf it would've been at best local asian lads fronting up a politicised football firm, a local issue where EDl would've recognised they don't have the same purchase as in luton.

What has been gifted to Griffin now is the platform of almost universal credibility on all sides:

1. look at the violent left-wing thugs
2. look at the violent racist thugs (nothing to do with us, even their banners say so)
3. look at the violent muslim thugs attacking ordinary indigenous folk
WE TOLD YOU SO!

They have also galvinised genuine nazis and facsists into coming to the defence and support of the edl.

Exactly, had the UAF not got involved and clearly so, then it would have been exactly this. Something that whilst messy could have, indeed would clearly have, been dealt with and put to bed, soto speak, without real lingering tensions. Sadly, with the involvement of the UAF, the Left is seen and will be seen, as intimately involved with and defending Islamicists/Political Islam/Islamic Fundamentalism. The idea that turning up to oppose a demo rejecting political Islam-however 'backward' that demo's political content may be, will be seen as anything other than defending Political Islam is wishful thinking. As a result the 'Left' is dragged in on the coat-tails of the UAF showboating.

So, nothing different to what Griffin says anytime anything like this happens? I really don't care. It's not like the national media is full reports showing a blubbing Griffin bemoaning these injustices. You have to go looking for it, so why you reproduce it here as if it's the most important aspect of all this is beyond me.

And the bottom line stands - organise demos to chant racist shit in a city centre like Brum and it won't be pain-free

Fuck sake, are you really this blind? It doesn't have to be the 'national media'. Birmingham, unlike neighbouring Dudley and Sandwell, is a city where the BNP have struggled to make inroads. The West Mids media however are happily reproducing pics of white folks on the deck-racist or otherwise-getting attacked by ostensibly black/asian mobs. Whatver the in depth truth of this the media image is pretty much all there is, context isn't necessarily explained in these pictures.

 

[durruti02]

plenty there were clearly straightforward racist fuckwits. a few had a bit of gumption about them, and knew it was best to try to pretend otherwise, and a small number were probably quite genuine. In only being racist against people from a presumed muslim background

ok this seems to me to be oneof two things

1) an attempt to inflame genuine islamophobia ( p.s. phobia means fear NOT hatred .. there is nothing evil in fearing something you do not know or understand especially when it seems that thing is attacking you ) by various groups, mainly ex squaddies and their footie mates and with various fasc trying to manipulate it

2) the above but with more worrying manipulation

whatever as revlon and slaac and fed and others are saying this is not something to steam into blindly

 

[Spion]

the edl demo DID go ahead and was quite clear ( if honest i do not know) that it was ANTI-racist and ANTI-nazi

have you seen the pictures? of the placards? 'black and white unite' 'we hate nazis etc' 'we are not bnp we are not racist' e what is going on. you think it is simply a big con trick? maybe maybe not

I think you're the most gullible fool on these boards. But you seem convinced these people are being honest. In that case I think you should get in touch with them and join them. Then you can really find out what they're all about. Go on, you agree with them - do it.

 

[durruti02]

Exactly, had the UAF not got involved and clearly so, then it would have been exactly this. Something that whilst messy could have, indeed would clearly have, been dealt with and put to bed, soto speak, without real lingering tensions. Sadly, with the involvement of the UAF, the Left is seen and will be seen, as intimately involved with and defending Islamicists/Political Islam/Islamic Fundamentalism. The idea that turning up to oppose a demo rejecting political Islam-however 'backward' that demo's political content may be, will be seen as anything other than defending Political Islam is wishful thinking. As a result the 'Left' is dragged in on the coat-tails of the UAF showboating.




Fuck sake, are you really this blind? It doesn't have to be the 'national media'. Birmingham, unlike neighbouring Dudley and Sandwell, is a city where the BNP have struggled to make inroads. The West Mids media however are happily reproducing pics of white folks on the deck-racist or otherwise-getting attacked by ostensibly black/asian mobs. Whatver the in depth truth of this the media image is pretty much all there is, context isn't necessarily explained in these pictures.

100%

 

[Spion]

and btw do you think no one should be angry that members of their community are prepared to blow them up?? you live in west yorks? one of the bombers came from dewsbury .. what goes round comes round

You're trying to justify white blokes shouting 'bomber' at random Asians on the streets of West Yorks now. You're either naive beyond belief or genuinely dangerous

 

[durruti02]

I think you're the most gullible fool on these boards. But you seem convinced these people are being honest. In that case I think you should get in touch with them and join them. Then you can really find out what they're all about. Go on, you agree with them - do it.

are you really as thick as you appear? i quite clearly have said i do not know if they are honest or not

and you have never met the sort of people in these groups?? guess not .. you're out of your depth spion .. it is very common for people to have black mates, not be racist or be soft racist, hate politics left and right AND be anti islamist ..

go and sort out all the racists where you live bye bye

 

[durruti02]

You're trying to justify white blokes shouting 'bomber' at random Asians on the streets of West Yorks now. You're either naive beyond belief or genuinely dangerous

grow up ffs a few drunks big deal .. the world is not as you want it .. some of us are trying to do something about it .. you are just a moaner ..

btw IF society was as bad as racist as islmophobic as people like you make out where that dewsbury bomber came from would have seen a pogram, mosques and community centres burnt out, street burnt out .. but what happenned?bugger all! 56 people killed 700 people injured by british muslims, yet NO race riots, NO mosques burnt down, NO muslims beaten by mobs ..

 

[Spion]

Exactly, had the UAF not got involved and clearly so,

You want the UAF to have not got involved and been clear about it? You're tying yourself in knots here with your sectarianism.

And why is it sectarianism? Because you're prepared to let your political differences with the UAF get in the way of the job of stopping a load of knuckledraggers intimidating ethnic minority people in Brum city centre on a Saturday afternoon.

Fuck sake, are you really this blind? It doesn't have to be the 'national media'. Birmingham, unlike neighbouring Dudley and Sandwell, is a city where the BNP have struggled to make inroads. The West Mids media however are happily reproducing pics of white folks on the deck-racist or otherwise-getting attacked by ostensibly black/asian mobs. Whatver the in depth truth of this the media image is pretty much all there is, context isn't necessarily explained in these pictures.

Well, fuck me, the press - the bosses' press - doesn't give context? Whatever next, Einstein? Are you going to be against strikes when the media reports them unfavourably from now on too?

 

[belboid]

ok this seems to me to be oneof two things

1) an attempt to inflame genuine islamophobia ( p.s. phobia means fear NOT hatred .. there is nothing evil in fearing something you do not know or understand especially when it seems that thing is attacking you )

Oh please! Dont try and justify their fucking bigotry. It is a clearly racist slogan, with a clearly racist target.

 

[Spion]

yet NO race riots, NO mosques burnt down, NO muslims beaten by mobs ..

I think that's a case of watch this space if the EDL/CU are allowed to expand

 

[Fedayn]

You want the UAF to have not got involved and been clear about it? You're tying yourself in knots here with your sectarianism.

And why is it sectarianism? Because you're prepared to let your political differences with the UAF get in the way of the job of stopping a load of knuckledraggers intimidating ethnic minority people in Brum city centre on a Saturday afternoon.

Yup, as I thought, a clueless clown who flexes his muscles over the web whilst not having to feel the consequences. No tying in knots at all. The involvement of the UAF has given the impression-fucking idiots that they are-the 'the Left' is onside here. Like it or not the perception has gione round. I know you like to feel all macho and brave behind your keyboard about how great it is. But you clearly understand fcuk all aboput consequences ansd political reality. That you fail to acknowledge the clear winners in this without wanking yourself silly about peiople getting beat up says it all.

Well, fuck me, the press - the bosses' press - doesn't give context? Whatever next, Einstein? Are you going to be against strikes when the media reports them unfavourably from now on too?

So a strike is analogous to this is it? What utter pish yet again. Have you managed to pass the teenage testosterone fuelled mindset yet?

 

[Spion]

Yup, as I thought, a clueless clown who flexes his muscles over the web whilst not having to feel the consequences. No tying in knots at all. The involvement of the UAF has given the impression-fucking idiots that they are-the 'the Left' is onside here. Like it or not the perception has gione round. I know you like to feel all macho and brave behind your keyboard about how great it is. But you clearly understand fcuk all aboput consequences ansd political reality. That you fail to acknowledge the clear winners in this without wanking yourself silly about peiople getting beat up says it all.



So a strike is analogous to this is it? What utter pish yet again. Have you managed to pass the teenage testosterone fuelled mindset yet?

Oh dear, here comes the abuse

It comes down to this:

I'm not prepared to let a load of racists intimidate people on a Saturday afternoon in a British city. You're clearly happy to let them organise with impunity.

I think that's an abstention from engaging with the 'political reality' you talk about, which in concrete terms means Asian people in Brum city centre get abused by these knobs. You can live with that, can you?

 

[Fedayn]

Oh dear, here comes the abuse

It comes down to this:

I'm not prepared to let a load of racists intimidate people on a Saturday afternoon in a British city. You're clearly happy to let them organise with impunity.

I think that's an abstention from engaging with the 'political reality' you talk about, which in concrete terms means Asian people in Brum city centre get abused by these knobs. You can live with that, can you?

As I have said, if the demo took place and of their own volition asian/black/wahetever youth did a number on these people then so what, I won't sit and worry over their health. That a few mouthy fuckers got a slap isn't really anyhting to worry about in this context. Revlon has already made this point and I agree with him, you in your rush to claim i'm ok with people being racially abused chose to ignore this, but hey ho. But you shriek at the idea of being mocked for your stupidity.

That, however, is not what happeend. In the eyes of a large number of people the Left is tied in, not with defending asians/blacks and other minorities but with defending a certain strain of reactionary Islam. They are also tied in with defending those people against their critics.

 

[audiotech]

are you fucking serious MC5? The BM were a fully fledged neo nazi organisation who thought the NF a Tory front. The EDL may be nationalists, they may be confused, they may be tilting at windmills, they may be manipulated by elements sympathetic to the BNP but they aren't nazis and they certaintly aren't a BM mark 2.

I'm being deadly serious. Maybe not building an overtly nazi organisation, but certainly a reactionary, combative, nationalist one with working class youth in it's ranks to manipulate. They want the numbers and they will want people who are up for a scrap.

It's an attempt to have an explosive summer that will assist the BNP.

Important to stop it now.

The EDL are naive fools who are being used.

 

[Spion]

As I have said, if the demo took place and of their own volition asian/black/wahetever youth did a number on these people then so what, I won't sit and worry over their health. That a few mouthy fuckers got a slap isn't really anyhting to worry about in this context.

So I'm right? You don't think anyone should have organised against this EDL thing but you're quite happy for asian/black/white youth to give them a kicking. It's a curious stance to take

That, however, is not what happeend. In the eyes of a large number of people the Left is tied in, not with defending asians/blacks and other minorities but with defending a certain strain of reactionary Islam.

YOu'll have a job proving that - unless you want to start quoting Griffin. The youtube videos seem to be pretty clear in that a very multiracial crowd of youth (by no means overwhelmingly asian) thought they were chasing a bunch of white racists. The Sunday Mercury reporter on the video described the EDL/CU as racists or facsists or somesuch

 

[Fedayn]

So I'm right? You don't think anyone should have organised against this EDL thing but you're quite happy for asian/black/white youth to give them a kicking. It's a curious stance to take

Not 'curious' at all, entirely realistic. Do you think it was gonna pass off with no reply? The important point is what happened, not what would have been the best scenario.

YOu'll have a job proving that - unless you want to start quoting Griffin. The youtube videos seem to be pretty clear in that a very multiracial crowd of youth (by no means overwhelmingly asian) thought they were chasing a bunch of white racists. The Sunday Mercury reporter on the video described the EDL/CU as racists or facsists or somesuch

Funny how here you are entirely happy with what the media say....

 

[sonny61]

black and white unite can still be racist if they unite against asians. There is considerable racism from some black people towards asians in Birmingham

Black and white unite placards are racist?
Fucking hell, there is going to be a big bonfire of placards at the UAF and SWP HQ!

 

[belboid]

you're not the sharpest knife in the drawer, are you sonny?

 

[Spion]

The important point is what happened, not what would have been the best scenario.

What should be the responses of the left, anti-racists etc the next time the EDL/CU call a demo?

Or is 'what happened' after the next one more important than thinking what outcome we'd like to see?

 

[sonny61]

Given the bullshit from the UAF and SWP that the EDL are the BNP, and have done their bit towards giving the impression that Muslims are all on Jihad to the general public, with the beating and robbing of probably innocent lone white males.

Maybe the white women of the UAF and the SWP, should cover themselves up on the next demo to show solidarity with militant Islam.
They have done it once before on a demo outside the Israeli embassy, where the SWP women were told to cover their heads.

 

[audiotech]

Given the bullshit from the UAF and SWP that the EDL are the BNP, and have done their bit towards giving the impression that Muslims are all on Jihad to the general public, with the beating and robbing of probably innocent lone white males.

Maybe the white women of the UAF and the SWP, should cover themselves up on the next demo to show solidarity with militant Islam.
They have done it once before on a demo outside the Israeli embassy, where the SWP women were told to cover their heads.

You really are full of shit.