EnglishWelsh Defence League, British Campaign agin Muslim Extremist, Causuals United

[butchersapron]

From the UAF site:

Instead they were outnumbered and roundly defeated. The spot they wanted to march in was occupied by hundreds of anti-fascists who had come to demonstrate their united opposition to racism and fascism. The UAF rally brought together Asian, black and white young people from the city alongside trade unionists and anti-racist campaigners. Chants included "Black and white, unite and fight" and "Nazi scum out of Brum".

The rally was addressed by speakers including: Weyman Bennett, joint secretary of Unite Against Fascism; Salma Yaqoob, Respect councillor for Birmingham Sparkbrook; Tony Conway from the national executive of the PCS union; Sam Margrave, former Labour councillor and anti-racist campaigner at Staffordshire University; John Hemingway, Birmingham secretary of the NASUWT teaching union; and Dave Hughes from Birmingham Trades Council.

The UAF counter demonstration acted as an important focal point for the anger that many people in Birmingham, especially those from the Muslim community, rightly felt about the fact that a gang of thugs was being allowed to hold a racist march in the city centre. Our rally was noisy but peaceful. The trouble that arose took place after it had ended and was sparked by a group of racists who broke off from the EDL demonstration and marched towards the anti-fascist rally to goad protesters.

Interesting though - at what point were the UAF lying, before the rally or after?

 

[invisibleplanet]

UAF were there, as revlon has shown in his post above they made a big claim about their counter-demo. They also were on TV Bennett and Smith being their mouthpieces about the days events.

I'm talking about the Sept 5th EDL, which UAF were not involved in organising a counter-demo, which had 90+ arrests, which had EDL being bussed to Coventry.

Revlon's unsourced quote comes from UAF statement of 10 August 2009. www.uaf.org.uk/news.asp?choice=90808

 

[Garcia Lorca]

The issue surely is not that discussing the issue with workers in these areas is bad, but only doing it when it's about race/racism is fucking patronising. garcia larca could give you similar stories I would think.

as soon as the scottish demo was announced, the swp were out in victoria road (high asian population), glasgow, drumming up support for a counter demo. The edl, who are new to a lot of people, should not be explained as "BNPers and nazi scum", as they were. its not true and if they arent trying to whip up an army, i dont know what they are trying to achieve with this nonsense.

 

[revlon]

>

don't fuck about.

July 4th edl demo in birmingham was unopposed

As a reposne uaf organised a counter demo for the august 8th demo. It was this demo where the uaf great and good whipped the local asian youth up into who went on the rampage to "get the bnp". This is where it all kicked off and youtube footage was spread of gangs of asian lads attacking lone white males.

Police warned the uaf off attending the sept 5 demo so a rag bag of swp hacks traipsed around birmingham with a homemade banner and had a bit of a stand off with some football casuals while the local asian youth once again got stuck in.

Let's not re write history eh?

The UAF counter demonstration acted as an important focal point for the anger that many people in Birmingham...

Unite Against Fascism was right to help organise opposition to the EDL and we will endeavour to do the same against any similar demonstration."

http://www.uaf.org.uk/news.asp?choice=90808

 

[invisibleplanet]

From the UAF site:



Interesting though - at what point were the UAF lying, before the rally or after?

Neither. We're talking abpout two different Brum EDL demos.
The latter demo is the one I am talking about (Sept) -where the UAF did not organise a counter protest.

 

[Fedayn]

I'm talking about the Sept 5th EDL, which UAF were not involved in organising a counter-demo, which had 90+ arrests, which had EDL being bussed to Coventry.

Revlon's unsourced quote comes from UAF statement of 10 August 2009. www.uaf.org.uk/news.asp?choice=90808

UAF were there on 5th September aswell. They're on video ffs. They also talked about it up here as a big success and that is from the UAF. Martin Smith was on tv afterwards talking about it's success. Now given he was a UAF spokesman why would he talk about their success if they weren't there?

 

[butchersapron]

Yes, as pointed out over a month ago when the same naive claims were made.

 

[invisibleplanet]

I thought they were SWP.

And I think there's no success to be claimed other than EDL stating they won't return to Brum because 'it's too violent', and SWP can't claim success when afaik it was Muslim lads who physically clashed with EDL.

 

[Fedayn]

>

So not officially applying for a demo means UAF weren't there? That's bizarre, espcially given they are on youtube and their 'leaders' and press spokespeople are on youtube. They were clearly there, your sleight of hand that UAF didn't apply for an official demo doesn't mean a thing in reality.

 

[Fedayn]

I thought they were SWP.

And I think there's no success to be claimed other than EDL stating they won't return to Brum because 'it's too violent', and SWP can't claim success when afaik it was Muslim lads who physically clashed with EDL.

I suggest you habve a look at other youtuibe videos then which clearly show leading UAF activists on it.

 

[invisibleplanet]

Yes, as pointed out over a month ago when the same naive claims were made.

butchersapron in yet another anti-SWP debarcle.

Does anyone here truly give a flying *beep* about your hatred of the SWP and other lefty groups you don't agree with? (apart from your fellow MATB travellers). If we're not careful, this thread will become eclipsed by your peoples hatred of the SWP. That's not the topic for discussion here.

(I don't give a fuck about the SWP).

 

[revlon]

I suggest you habve a look at other youtuibe videos then which clearly show leading UAF activists on it.

i think they were their in a personal capacity

 

[invisibleplanet]

I suggest you habve a look at other youtuibe videos then which clearly show leading UAF activists on it.

I don't care! The UAF didn't organise a counter-demo that day (5 Sept). That some of their activists were there is neither here nor there, is it? Or are you one of those people who just wanted the Sept 5 EDL demo to become a straightforward clash between EDL and Muslims with no other visible anti-EDL'ers?

 

[butchersapron]

butchersapron in yet another anti-SWP debarcle.

Does anyone here truly give a flying *beep* about your hatred of the SWP and other lefty groups you don't agree with? (apart from your fellow MATB travellers). If we're not careful, this thread will become eclipsed by your peoples hatred of the SWP. That's not the topic for discussion here.

(I don't give a fuck about the SWP).

I've seen some cyncially disingenuous arguments in my time but that one...well...

 

[invisibleplanet]

So not officially applying for a demo means UAF weren't there? That's bizarre, espcially given they are on youtube and their 'leaders' and press spokespeople are on youtube. They were clearly there, your sleight of hand that UAF didn't apply for an official demo doesn't mean a thing in reality.

How dare you make this personal. What sleight of hand is mine? I am reporting what West Midlands Police and UAF have said. I don't think this is an issue at all. I don't care for SWP politics much, but I have better things to do with my time than get dragged in to yet another SWP-bashing exercise. I notice the EDL are making a big thing of 'red' bashing too.

 

[butchersapron]

Oh, maybe that one just topped it.

 

[Silver_Fox]

The confusion might be because the UAF didn't build for the Birmingham demo, indeed people like Salma Yaqoob told people to stay at home.

Because they UAF wouldn't support it, the SWP had to do it under their own banner. Granted though many of the leading activists in the SWP do also have a UAF hat.

However this all shows the total bankruptcy of UAF, although the SWP won't face up to this.

 

[invisibleplanet]

I've seen some cyncially disingenuous arguments in my time but that one...well...

You're the master of cynically disingenous arguments, so I've no doubt you've created many of them, including the ones you're creating now.

Just for the record - butchersapron & cohorts have never let any issue get in the way of a chance to 'SWP bash'. It's a well known fact on urban and you're all notorious for it.

 

[Fedayn]

I don't care! The UAF didn't organise a counter-demo that day (5 Sept). That some of their activists were there is neither here nor there, is it? Or are you one of those people who just wanted the Sept 5 EDL demo to become a straightforward clash between EDL and Muslims with no other visible anti-EDL'ers?

So they didn't organise the demo means as YOU claimed the weren't really there? Followed by some of their activists were there in the next breath? That's some gymnastics you're doing there, congratulations. You've more twists than a corkscrew.
I suggest you stop trying to think for me, especially when you're doing such complicated mental somersaults in your own answers.

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

' .. putting my weight behind ..this bunch of seig heiling crypto fascists.. " muppet

They are though. I do firmly believe that not all criticism of islam is racist, and have often argued it on here, however, this lot are not helping, claiming to be secularist critics and then indiscriminately attacking asians.

And you do basically seem to be supporting them

 

[Fedayn]

How dare you make this personal. What sleight of hand is mine? I am reporting what West Midlands Police and UAF have said. I don't think this is an issue at all. I don't care for SWP politics much, but I have better things to do with my time than get dragged in to yet another SWP-bashing exercise. I notice the EDL are making a big thing of 'red' bashing too.

Your sleight of hand is clear. Your claim was that because the UAF didn't organise the counter demo then they weren't there that day, pretty simple to see what you said.

Oooooh and now equating people pointing out your attempted tricks as using the same tactics as the EDL. Nice try.....

 

[invisibleplanet]

Below is what I said. Later, someone said that some of their activists were there. It remains that the UAF did not ORGANISE a counter demo. I think those are also prominent SWP members, but since I don't follow what SWP personalities are doing, it's neither here nor there when I reported, correctly, that the UAF (as an organisation) did not ORGANISE a counter-demo (as they did in Mancs). for Sept. 5th EDL march/demo.

What you're saying doesn't make sense, since I know Spion is aware of the following, and was aware even before the Brum EDL demo.

. UAF weren't in Brum - made a public point out of not being there - due to criticism that their presence made things worse (I think).
UAF confirm they are not planning a counter demonstration tomorrow (Saturday 5 September): http://www.west-midlands.police.uk/latest-news/press-release.asp?id=1562

. Police advised council to cancel long-planned multicultural event which was supposed to be held on the day the EDL came to Brum.

. Brum Central Mosque leader openly encouraged asian youth to counter EDL. (The only mosque leader to have done so, everyone other mosque leader discouraged/discourages this type of response).

AFAICR, it was mentioned after the event that SWP did have a presence there.

 

[revlon]

They are though. I do firmly believe that not all criticism of islam is racist, and have often argued it on here, however, this lot are not helping, claiming to be secularist critics and then indiscriminately attacking asians.

And you do basically seem to be supporting them

but this is the problem - people from different races adopt islam as their religion and many asians support other religions beyond islam.

 

[invisibleplanet]

Your sleight of hand is clear. Your claim was that because the UAF didn't organise the counter demo then they weren't there that day, pretty simple to see what you said.

Oooooh and now equating people pointing out your attempted tricks as using the same tactics as the EDL. Nice try.....

I've made no tricks here. I just reported some links to West Midlands Police force that said UAF were not planning a counter-demo for 5th Sept in Brum. I am not in SWP or UAF, but I do resent many conversations here on British Muslims being turned/diverted to discuss SWP/UAF, time and time again.

Anyway - I imagine the Leeds EDL demo on 31 October will be called off by EDL themselves very shortly.

 

[Fedayn]

Below is what I said. Later, someone said that some of their activists were there. It remains that the UAF did not ORGANISE a counter demo. I think those are also prominent SWP members, but since I don't follow what SWP personalities are doing, it's neither here nor there when I reported, correctly, that the UAF (as an organisation) did not ORGANISE a counter-demo (as they did in Mancs). for Sept. 5th EDL march/demo.

As i said, you claim that because UAF didn't organise the counter-demo then they weren't there. It has been pointed out to you, however, that they had a presence there, they had public spokespeople there and that they werem clearly visible on youtube, Indeed one of their leading TV people was clearly visible. It's a sleight of hand to claim what you are claiming. Nah he's got his SWP hat on today not his UAF hat.....

 

[Fedayn]

I've made no tricks here. I just reported some links to West Midlands Police force that said UAF were not planning a counter-demo for 5th Sept in Brum.

Anyway - I imagine the Leeds EDL demo on 31 October will be called off by EDL themselves very shortly.

You claimed that the evidence that they weren't there is that they didn't organise the counter demo. That is evidence of nothing more than they didn't organise the demo. It is not evidence that they weren't there or had a presence there.

Why do you think the Leeds demo will be called off?

Glasgow City Council have publically claimed they have no powers to stop the demo up here. Interesting line given they've recently banned Republican marches on the grounds of 'public safety'.

 

[invisibleplanet]

As i said, you claim that because UAF didn't organise the counter-demo then they weren't there. It has been pointed out to you, however, that they had a presence there, they had public spokespeople there and that they werem clearly visible on youtube, Indeed one of their leading TV people was clearly visible. It's a sleight of hand to claim what you are claiming. Nah he's got his SWP hat on today not his UAF hat.....

I really don't care if people have dual membership of SWP/UAF or of Conservative Party/UAF or of Labour Party/UAF etc.
I was reporting the West Midlands Police statement which stated that UAF would not be organising a counter-demo (they didn't).

It's really it's not an issue which hat a joint member of SWP/UAF were wearing on 5 SEpt, afaic. It's not my sleight of hand. I don't understand why you're wasting so much wordage on it.

 

[Fedayn]

I really don't care if people have dual membership of SWP/UAF or of Conservative Party/UAF or of Labour Party/UAF etc.
I was reporting the West Midlands Police statement which stated that UAF would not be organising a counter-demo (they didn't).

It's really it's not an issue which hat a joint member of SWP/UAF were wearing on 5 SEpt, afaic. It's not my sleight of hand. I don't understand why you're wasting so much wordage on it.

Because you're clearly making out people were/are telling untruths about the UAF. You tried to 'prove' that by referring to them not organising a counter demo meant they weren't there. It's a non-sequitor frankly.

 

[invisibleplanet]

You claimed that the evidence that they weren't there is that they didn't organise the counter demo. That is evidence of nothing more than they didn't organise the demo. It is not evidence that they weren't there or had a presence there.

Why do you think the Leeds demo will be called off?

Glasgow City Council have publically claimed they have no powers to stop the demo up here. Interesting line given they've recently banned Republican marches on the grounds of 'public safety'.

You're obviously the superior focus here. Let's keep talking about the SWP, yes. That will really be useful

Why do I think the 31st October (that is the EDL Leeds date, yes?) demo will be called off by the EDL themselves?
I'll tell you if you promise to stop talking about the SWP, the UAF, and any others who have got drawn in to counter-demo the EDL.

 

[Fedayn]

You're obviously the superior focus here. Let's keep talking about the SWP, yes. That will really be useful

Why do I think the Leeds demo will be called off by the EDL themselves?
I'll tell you if you promise to stop talking about the SWP, the UAF, and any others who have got drawn in to counter-demo the EDL.

In other words, ignore what's happening, ignore the bad tactics, ignore the groups who have helped get us here..... That'll work won't it?!
You're like a 10 year old stamping your feet telling us all it's your ball and you're taking it home unless we do as you tell us..... Laughable....