EDL watch

[Corax]

agree 100% - and with cameras there, its everywhere now. V depressing that it had to be her, there, then. The bloke was willing to talk, she just shouted in his face, v v frustrating this.

I don't 'blame' her as an individual tbh. She was clearly angry, and I know full well how that kind of anger can turn the most eloquent people into incoherent shouty idiots. I kept wanting someone else to step in and take over, but there's a whole separate politics in play there - especially as everyone around her appeared to be male. Very frustrating to watch though.

 

[cantsin]

I don't 'blame' her as an individual tbh. She was clearly angry, and I know full well how that kind of anger can turn the most eloquent people into incoherent shouty idiots. I kept wanting someone else to step in and take over, but there's a whole separate politics in play there - especially as everyone around her appeared to be male. Very frustrating to watch though.

all true

 

[bimble]

If it hadn't gone so badly - if she'd been able to put in a good argument - we'd probably never have seen it, as Oik says it's 'the patriots' who get to cover these things on YouTube and social media.

 

[cantsin]

though on other hand, the idea that the Manc march was some broad based anti hate / anti jihadist march is prob giving it more credit than it deserves :

 

[malatesta32]

2 things: many antifa do not carry cameras lest they get seized and incriminating footage is culled before editing and obscuring faces. We had loads of photos/footage of demos but deleted it all etc. ages ago which is why we never put them on the blog but use MSM ones.
the demo on sunday was a total surprise. there were people clearly confused about the real nature of it, ie, EDL, TRs little slags (even Beaker KKKev Karol turned out) and expressed genuine concern over terror incidents.
there was a counter demo by gay community and UAF who no doubt expected the usual 200.
the main question is, can they repeat it? there are many who will not stand with TR but counting on the far right to fragment every 3 weeks is hardly strategy.
i'm sure the omniscient Butchers (who runs the world wide digitised super-highway) will have all the answers.

 

[Sweet FA]

the main question is, can they repeat it? there are many who will not stand with TR but counting on the far right to fragment every 3 weeks is hardly strategy.
i'm sure the omniscient Butchers (who runs the world wide digitised super-highway) will have all the answers.

Tag him and find out rather than have a snide dig.

 

[Red Sky]

the main question is, can they repeat it?

We'll find out in London in a fortnight.

 

[Red Sky]

I know a few blokes , who I am on good terms with, who will say that Tommy Robinson says says some good things. ie that he is against Islamic terrorism, the burkha and sharia law. Of course I tell them that he has another agenda and that he gets support from the far right but they'll come back and say why aren't the left doing something about it. so I tell them about the dozen or so fighting alongside the Kurds actually doing something to fight ISIS and then they'll say why don't the left hold demonstration over here supporting the fighters and against Islamic extremism , the burkha and sharia law. And then I get stuck . We've missed an opportunity and that's why people like that black lad , the Asian girl in the Union Jack and no doubt a couple of hundred others joined Robinsons demo. Of course there were some nazis on it but there would have been a lot more non nazis on it as well.

The Left has certainly held demos in favour of the Kurdish struggle.

Against the burkha and sharia law? How would that work in practice? Do we want the situation we had in France where it ended up with armed police forcing women to strip on the beach?

 

[Corax]

Tag him and find out rather than have a snide dig.

Who, butchersapron ?

*walks away whistling*

 

[malatesta32]

Tag him and find out rather than have a snide dig.

there are very few on here as snidey as that fuckbiscuit.

 

[malatesta32]

We'll find out in London in a fortnight.

he's pulled out.

 

[Red Sky]

he's pulled out.

Postponed. Still in London this week we have Crossland's EDL and something new called the "Football Lads Alliance" or "Football Lads against Extremism"

 

[19force8]

Postponed. Still in London this week we have Crossland's EDL and something new called the "Football Lads Alliance" or "Football Lads against Extremism"

Can't make that, but in Brum next weekend we have Britain Farts.

 

[The39thStep]

there are very few on here as snidey as that fuckbiscuit.

Care to expand on that ?

 

[The39thStep]

The Left has certainly held demos in favour of the Kurdish struggle.

Against the burkha and sharia law? How would that work in practice? Do we want the situation we had in France where it ended up with armed police forcing women to strip on the beach?

Or where women in Iran wear white to protest about compulsory head scarfs ?

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Care to expand on that ?

"He makes me feel uncomfortable".

 

[no-no]

Historic and well-founded resistance to being filmed may play a part. FIT, Redwatch etc.

What are FIT and Redwatch?

 

[DotCommunist]

What are FIT and Redwatch?

police intelligence officers- they film and stalk.
Redwatch is assorted fash stalking left wingers, often completely getting details wrong but there you go

 

[no-no]

gothca, cheers

 

[The39thStep]

The British left has many weaknesses, but it's ability to relate to and work with Muslim minorities is not one of them. If they had taken the approach you suggest they would have cheered on Blair's invasions and Cameron's bombing missions *. They would demonise the entire Muslim community and support (nay initiate) bans on headscarves in schools etc, etc.

The end result would have been TR at the head of 200,000 in Manchester and a virtual lockdown in Muslim areas.

If you think that's far fetched you only have to look across the Channel and contemplate the rise of Le Pen and the FN. IMO largely down to the French left's decision that secularism was more important than anti-racism.

Last weekend AFA/HnH/SUTR/UAF took their eyes off the ball and the fascists got a boost. The way to counter that isn't to agree that Muslims are the problem, but to get out there and expose the real nature of the hardened fascists to the audience they trying to pull behind them.

* E2A There are sections of the left that do this, eg AWL.

You are right the British left has weakness and its ability not to recognise its weakness is probably its biggest especially its inate ability to cosy up to many Muslim organisations simply because they are muslim rather than for their politics. Whether this be with the Labour Party for votes, or the SWP for 'united fronts of a special kind' or just the general swamp type of we'll back anything anyone if it looks like its opposed to America its record is emabarassing. Seperate seating arrangements for men and women, platforms with CAGE, platforms with MAB, backing and even worse defending Luftar Rahman, the entire RESPECT project, an appauling silence on FGM, and an utter failure to confront reactionary preachers, would be jihaadist groups and those who are against the rights that we as the workling class and left fought for.

 

[butchersapron]

RESPECT ran them into the ground as racist. It was anarchists and non-dom - types who did it. Same as UBA shit.

 

[Red Sky]

Or where women in Iran wear white to protest about compulsory head scarfs ?

That's a movement that's emerged directly from the people affected by Irans compulsory hijab laws. Is there a UK equivalent that you're aware of?

 

[The39thStep]

I am not going to spoonfeed you , have a look at some of the discussions by Muslims in the UK on the net , on Twitter about how the Islamacists and conservatives have been allowed to dominate the agenda very often aided by the left

 

[Red Sky]

I am not going to spoonfeed you , have a look at some of the discussions by Muslims in the UK on the net , on Twitter about how the Islamacists and conservatives have been allowed to dominate the agenda very often aided by the left

How's your support going?

 

[Ranbay]

Just watching Tommy on GMB lolololololol

 

[stethoscope]

there are very few on here as snidey as that fuckbiscuit.

Don't be a dick. Butchers experience and insight is worth a hundred of yours.

 

[malatesta32]

)*( fuck off clueless sycophant.

 

[Ptolemy]

You are right the British left has weakness and its ability not to recognise its weakness is probably its biggest especially its inate ability to cosy up to many Muslim organisations simply because they are muslim rather than for their politics. Whether this be with the Labour Party for votes, or the SWP for 'united fronts of a special kind' or just the general swamp type of we'll back anything anyone if it looks like its opposed to America its record is emabarassing. Seperate seating arrangements for men and women, platforms with CAGE, platforms with MAB, backing and even worse defending Luftar Rahman, the entire RESPECT project, an appauling silence on FGM, and an utter failure to confront reactionary preachers, would be jihaadist groups and those who are against the rights that we as the workling class and left fought for.

This is the problem with uncritical "anti-imperialist" projects. The enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend. To be true to socialist politics means to fight all injustice on every front - wherever and whatever it may be.

When you see or hear people referring to "Comrade Mugabe", you know something's gone horribly wrong somewhere.

 

[killer b]

Surely none but the truly deranged would refer to comrade Mugabe? The something that's gone wrong there isn't in the British left...

While there is a great deal of sloppy thinking on the left, I think There's also an issue with the views of fringe nutcases being given more prominence than they should be.

 

[Ptolemy]

Not necessarily the British left, although I have seen it in some nominally "leftist" places online.

Perhaps too much of a fringe example, a better one might be the divide over the Ba'athist regime in Syria (though the rise of the Syrian Kurds has given a more positive force to rally behind in that particular conflict) And yes, the more "out there" elements tend to be louder or more noticeable than the majority of the left. It just feels sometimes though that there's too much binary thinking about issues like this, and not enough nuanced judgement.