EDL watch
- Thread starter Das Uberdog
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articul8
Dishonest sociopath
Name one
SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
Ooooh, one of the ones in Sheffield lives right in the middle of one of the areas with the biggest Muslim populations, and where they're very well organised and a fair few of them involved in the kind of err... trades where you have to be able to provide your own security because the police might not be too keen on your line of business. I think he may be moving house before too long
I was gonna say, I'm having a sincere conversation with Oswald Mosley ffs here so 
to me
I can't speak for Luton but my dad's family are from Bradford and I know that part of the world quite well, and don't believe the hype it's a fine place to live. It's always overstated how segregated some of the "communities" are in this country. I'm not saying it's all hunky dory just that take a town like Bradford, for all the talk of "multiculturalism has failed" Bradford functions. People live and work side by side every day and just get on with it, it's not fucking Mad Max. So when you say:
You don't really know that unless you've lived somewhere where there is a mixed community. It's almost certainly not as bad as you're thinking. Honestly it took me a little while to get used to how multi-ethnic certain parts of London are when I first started visiting friends down there in my late teens, but having spent a bit of time there it demystifies all the preconceptions you have and now I buzz off it whenever I get chance to get down there.
And this:
So do I, Islamic fundamentalists genuinely are dangerous and are pretty scum of the earth as far as I'm concerned. And I don't reckon anyone else here on this thread would have any difficulty in understanding why would people who are young alienated and disillusioned would end up going the way of the EDL, as mistaken as it is. But how does having demonstrations where you threaten to burn the Koran, or attempt to attack mosques, do anything at al to deal with radical islamic fundamentalism? How does that help matters? If anything the whole thing seems deliberately designed to provoke a backlash from people, from the left, from the muslims, from the state, it's fucking idiocy. And that's something they share with their enemies in Al Mujaharoon etc - the guy who killed the soldier in London said in his own words "we want to start a war here in London" and fuck me the EDL only went and took him up on his offer. Why give them the war they want?
to meI can't speak for Luton but my dad's family are from Bradford and I know that part of the world quite well, and don't believe the hype it's a fine place to live. It's always overstated how segregated some of the "communities" are in this country. I'm not saying it's all hunky dory just that take a town like Bradford, for all the talk of "multiculturalism has failed" Bradford functions. People live and work side by side every day and just get on with it, it's not fucking Mad Max. So when you say:
You don't really know that unless you've lived somewhere where there is a mixed community. It's almost certainly not as bad as you're thinking. Honestly it took me a little while to get used to how multi-ethnic certain parts of London are when I first started visiting friends down there in my late teens, but having spent a bit of time there it demystifies all the preconceptions you have and now I buzz off it whenever I get chance to get down there.
And this:
So do I, Islamic fundamentalists genuinely are dangerous and are pretty scum of the earth as far as I'm concerned. And I don't reckon anyone else here on this thread would have any difficulty in understanding why would people who are young alienated and disillusioned would end up going the way of the EDL, as mistaken as it is. But how does having demonstrations where you threaten to burn the Koran, or attempt to attack mosques, do anything at al to deal with radical islamic fundamentalism? How does that help matters? If anything the whole thing seems deliberately designed to provoke a backlash from people, from the left, from the muslims, from the state, it's fucking idiocy. And that's something they share with their enemies in Al Mujaharoon etc - the guy who killed the soldier in London said in his own words "we want to start a war here in London" and fuck me the EDL only went and took him up on his offer. Why give them the war they want?
I don't know I'm guessing. There must be a small town somewhere in Wales that hasn't changed.
That's besides the point and not what I'm arguing about at all.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
What do people make of this kind of view of the EDL:
"the organization and the culture entirely football."
https://twitter.com/sadkant/status/339125650587791361
seeing the EDL as basically supporters' parties
Does it still make sense?
"the organization and the culture entirely football."
https://twitter.com/sadkant/status/339125650587791361
seeing the EDL as basically supporters' parties
Does it still make sense?
articul8
Dishonest sociopath
seeing the EDL as basically supporters' parties
Dunno - we have the England v Ireland game on wednesday. Expect EDL types will be there, and more bothered about singing "no surrender to the IRA" then owt to do with muslims. There's a fair old Irish community round these parts too - let them come down The Kingdom with that carry on...
audiotech
wav, aiff, mp3, ogg, flac
Gets to you sometimes and the fact it's gonna get a hell of a lot worse. Despite my pasty face comments, well I'm taking the piss out of myself here too, being from a pastie munching, lager drinking, can't afford a holiday background. As for dentistry? I still smell the gas they knocked you out with back then, so I avoided fillings and especially extractions if I could.
Don't know if you were around in 1977, anyway probably posted this before, but will do again now. Everywhere you went and I mean everywhere there was support for the NF in one form or another - graffiti, talking to people, people at work were supporters, even people you knew in the local pub. There were places in the town centre you purposely avoided. Then there were the foot soldiers of the British Movement to contend with. The left, caught on the hop as usual, having to do some rapid catch-up. My first anti-fascist meeting there were around a dozen of us, mostly very young people and a couple of middle-aged lecturers and when I looked at our strength in physical terms my first thought was "we're fucked". Hey, but we got on with the hard slog over a two year period, which was very intensive and a further three years of less intensive activity, but it was an achievement nonetheless. We countered the fascist propaganda, countered them in other ways too, but importantly people attended the weekly events and we managed to get one or two to help with the work we felt we had to do. Our small, but active Rock Against Racism group, who held events, with the organising and publicity produced in a mouldy old cellar, using silkscreen, producing posters and a litho printer for leaflets etc you turned with a handle. Met some people I wouldn't have met otherwise and have some really good memories of those days. Windows being smashed and swastika's sprayed on doors mere detail.
I have never seen any presence at all here of the EDL. There are some, but small in number and having to draft in people from the south, Portsmouth, places oop North from Newcastle and other places to get the numbers out and the other week here they managed just 150. They'll be pushing for momentum presently and trying to exploit this recent barbarity. They may get more numbers out during the coming summer months. Very likely. Their lack of discipline alone puts people off. I checked the number of likes tonight on one EDL facebook page and it had just eight. It looked to me like a national page too. I'm sure there are others with higher numbers, but what the hell. People can see a group exploiting a situation for their own ends, particularly if it's in tragic circumstances and malevolent.
More people out on the streets doing as you are butchers. My compliments sir.
Ooooh, one of the ones in Sheffield lives right in the middle of one of the areas with the biggest Muslim populations, and where they're very well organised and a fair few of them involved in the kind of err... trades where you have to be able to provide your own security because the police might not be too keen on your line of business. I think he may be moving house before too long
How is that funny?
Limerick Red
Мы вас похороним!
Apparently they fairly made shit of Kilburn/Cricklewood last time we played.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
Here is the ISN on EDL and racism:
http://www.leninology.com/2013/05/a-few-points-on-struggle-against-racism.html
1. I don't really get it.
2. I'm never sure how much street violence the EDL is based on. They promote street shouting and chanting pretty vile stuff. They do encourage street incidents in a more general sense though.
3. I read this as saying 'there should be a Anti-Racism Unity' in addition to anything else.
5. Seems to be let's have a left party, a pro-immigrants group and an anti-racism unity and a specific anti-EDL UAF group.
http://www.leninology.com/2013/05/a-few-points-on-struggle-against-racism.html
1. I don't really get it.
2. I'm never sure how much street violence the EDL is based on. They promote street shouting and chanting pretty vile stuff. They do encourage street incidents in a more general sense though.
3. I read this as saying 'there should be a Anti-Racism Unity' in addition to anything else.
4. Seems to suggest racism is the better target to aim a campaign around rather than anti-war efforts - simply because combat operations have been handed over to the ANA and drone technology.
5. Seems to be let's have a left party, a pro-immigrants group and an anti-racism unity and a specific anti-EDL UAF group.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
You haven't got long now Oswald.
Before you go care to answer some of the points which have been made? They seem to me to directly challenge some of your intial assertions and assumptions and therefore merit a reply from you.
Buckaroo
Donkey piss and tractors
Thought they hadn't played since Landsdowne rd riot 1995?
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Defending Downing Street on Monday - defending Kilburn on the Wednesday eh 8?
Limerick Red
Мы вас похороним!
Ya was on about 91.
articul8
Dishonest sociopath
Weyman B was at this yesterday, some "joke" about how the EDL had been frightened by the prospect of the London Symphonic Orchestra in case they were forced to encounter culture, or some such shite. And someone in the crowd behind me was shouting "chavs" (I kid you not - you'd have thought they'd have at least read their Owen and learnt not to).
Fucks sake.
articul8
Dishonest sociopath
Sure Kilburn can look after itself tbh - there's a fair few Irish pubs in Wembley mind, so not sure how that'll pan out. Might have to station myself at a few of em just to be sure they're safe like
Limerick Red
Мы вас похороним!
Tommy Robinson EDL Sure Kilburn can look after itself tbh - there's a fair few Irish pubs in Wembley mind, so not sure how that'll pan out. Might have to station myself at a few of em just to be sure they're safe like
Retweeted by Michael TBL Sapsford
articul8
Dishonest sociopath
SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
Yep, as the bedroom tax stuff was starting to happen a mate I went to college with got in touch with me to say his mum and his sister (who live on one of the poorest estates in the country) were both going to be hit by the bedroom tax. I knew about his sister because he'd told me he was worried that she was falling in with the far-right and asked me for advice on it - she'd been around the fringes of the EDL and then moved in with a bloke who seemed to be kind of the unofficial leader of the NWI in their town (not going to say where cos I don't want any of them to figure out who she is but those who know me will probably be able to guess - it's somewhere where the BNP were very strong pre-meltdown).
He asked me whether I agreed with it (bedroom tax) and I explained I thought it stank and was torn as to whether to offer to talk to them about setting up a campaign on their estate. But in the end I thought fuck it, he's a good mate and the stuff from his sister is more about wankers exploiting a fairly vulnerable woman.
So I went over and talked to them. Wasn't easy - the first thing I got was the line about Muslims being exempt cos they could say the spare room was a prayer room. I said I was sure that wasn't true (first time I'd heard it) but when she insisted it was I said ok then, I'll go away and find out and if it's true that's completely unfair and we'll make it part of the campaign (knowing it wouldn't be true). And it went on like that - she never said anything beyond the myths - if she'd said anything outright racist I would have had a go but she didn't. She'd just been fed a right wing line explaining the problems she faces.
Now, there hasn't been a Damascene conversion or anything, the myths still come out from time to time but we just deal with them sensibly - don't scream racist but just show the facts so there can be no doubt they are myths. Slowly but surely the rants are moving from being against immigrants being given preferential treatment to the rich/bankers/Tories and she voted Labour at the county council elections (would definitely have been BNP or UKIP a couple of months ago). I've not been involved in anything for a few weeks cos I've got some quite serious personal stuff going on at the moment so I haven't seen her for a bit but I was told the other day that she's joined Unite Community and she's playing a leading role in the bedroom tax campaign. And she's pulling in people who were not especially political but believed a lot of the myths and they're working with members of the SWP (who have, after it being explained to them the importance of being patient, though not needing to pander to outright racism, have been surprisingly sensible in their dealings with her), the SP, anarchists and immigrants who live on the estate. That would have been unthinkable a few months ago.
It's not about preaching Marxism to them or whatever, the people I'm talking about aren't interested in all that (though one day they might, who knows?) but challenging the myths while working with them on a common cause, and letting them come to their own conclusions, to define their own politics through a combination of experience of collective action and better information than they had before (ie cutting through the myths). And the campaigning does seem to be shifting the way they see the world, my mate's suster especially - she's started talking about class in a way she never would have before (would sometimes talk about the white w/c but now it's working class).
I was pleasantly surprised by just how well it is working to be honest - it's far from easy and it's not as much fun as a big demo but it strikes me that it's much more effective. At a counter-demo she'd be on the other side of a fence and there'd be no real chance of any kind of interaction, at least not one that isn't hostile anyway.
SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
The ones on that list aren't, generally, just the soft support who have jumped on it after last week's events. They're the more committed ones - fuck them.
_angel_
.
ill fitting suits?
Brixton Hatter
Home is south London mate
I know loads of people from Luton and many are thoroughly fucked off with the EDL - race relations were good in the town before the EDL came along.
Brixton Hatter
Home is south London mate
SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
They prove that the far right are racist. How else are we supposed to reach such a shocking conclusion?
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