EDL watch

[The39thStep]

It all happens on the internet Bob

 

[Ranbay]

yeah, i should go out more like i did tonight or something.

safe

 

[Das Uberdog]

[...]But just dismissing them as racists or blabbering on about 'cross-community paradigms between British Nationalism and Loyalism' or Spanish Falangeism or Mosley's brownshirts or whatever (as somebody else did earlier) is just shit.

not sure it is exactly why you so profoundly fail to see any merit in historical/social/political parallels, or even the notion of discussing them (especially seeing as the example you're vaguely referring to in this quote was my own, which was openly posed as a conversation starter). no-one here disagrees with your criticisms of non-class based analyses of racism. most people probably won't disagree with you on the point of just shouting 'fascist' and 'nazi' at them. if your problem is simply with people giving enough time to talk about groups like the EDL at all (as it seems is butchersapron's bug bear) then tbh just fuck off out of the thread. if you're interested in discussing them then accept that, err, people will actually try to make sense of these organisations, what they are doing and what they are actually planning to achieve.

 

[Anudder Oik]

Interesting video that compares the lot of white communities and Asian communities in Oldham, I think.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Interesting video that compares the lot of white communities and Asian communities in Oldham, I think.

I think it's good too, but he is calling the racists nasty names so he doesnt have any real solutions. Or something. He may be a white working class person from the area, but he cant know as much as the U75 self appointed political analysts who are ready to pounce on "snobs" who criticise the bleatings of racist losers.

 

[Das Uberdog]

without questioning the main guy's w/c credentials, that video is clearly a reactionary against the deficiencies of his own community/culture.

 

[Das Uberdog]

EDL trash up Luton Labour Party

http://uaf.org.uk/2011/02/windows-smashed-and-edl-grafitti-left-at-luton-labour-hq/

 

[irvinebenjamin8]

Watch looks great in my hands....

 

[Proper Tidy]

not sure it is exactly why you so profoundly fail to see any merit in historical/social/political parallels, or even the notion of discussing them (especially seeing as the example you're vaguely referring to in this quote was my own, which was openly posed as a conversation starter). no-one here disagrees with your criticisms of non-class based analyses of racism. most people probably won't disagree with you on the point of just shouting 'fascist' and 'nazi' at them. if your problem is simply with people giving enough time to talk about groups like the EDL at all (as it seems is butchersapron's bug bear) then tbh just fuck off out of the thread. if you're interested in discussing them then accept that, err, people will actually try to make sense of these organisations, what they are doing and what they are actually planning to achieve.

Profoundly. Lol.

If you want to wank off about how they are just like the black and tans or whatever then knock yourself out, it's completely irrelevant though.

if you're interested in discussing them then accept that, err, people will actually try to make sense of these organisations, what they are doing and what they are actually planning to achieve.

The fucking organisations don't matter you dick.

 

[Anudder Oik]

The fucking organisations don't matter you dick.

Right, so an extremely active EDL mobilizing a hell of a lot of hooligans on the street, supposedly on one issue but not really, doesn't matter?

I think the whole EDL thing is giving the street orientated fash more confidence and will most definitely deliver new recruits to them after their initiatiation in so called acceptable racism. I see the EDL as a vehicle to something more serious.

What is the next step for them? The Barnsley video says it all.

They are a potential counter protest/anti left force. Their leader showed his cards when he gave a speech in Peterborough encouraging EDL followers to mobilize against Anti fees protestors (Students) in London. If they were able to do that (and Im not saying they would have it easy) they would be basically acting as a street deterent to protest, in these times of assaults on living standards and resistance to cuts. Sound familiar? History repeats because economic and social conditions also repeat.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Right, so an extremely active EDL mobilizing a hell of a lot of hooligans on the street, supposedly on one issue but not really, doesn't matter?

I think the whole EDL thing is giving the street orientated fash more confidence and will most definitely deliver new recruits to them after their initiatiation in so called acceptable racism. I see the EDL as a vehicle to something more serious.

What is the next step for them? The Barnsley video says it all.

They are a potential counter protest/anti left force. Their leader showed his cards when he gave a speech in Peterborough encouraging EDL followers to mobilize against Anti fees protestors (Students) in London. If they were able to do that (and Im not saying they would have it easy) they would be basically acting as a street deterent to protest, in these times of assaults on living standards and resistance to cuts. Sound familiar? History repeats because economic and social conditions also repeat.

And if the far right didn't have these grievances to latch on to, or if a pro-working class force was already addressing these grievances, then the far right wouldn't have any traction.

Cause/consequence.

 

[Anudder Oik]

And if the far right didn't have these grievances to latch on to, or if a pro-working class force was already addressing these grievances, then the far right wouldn't have any traction.

Cause/consequence.

I agree. The larger street left organizastions turned their back on the WC years ago and turned into a debating society. The few who had learned the lessons were that, too few.

The grievances being housing, opportunities etc , Not perceived threats from Islam taking over and all that tosh.

 

[Das Uberdog]

Profoundly. Lol.

yeah right, so we all understand you hate words such as 'parallel' and 'profound'... laughable you take this culturally backwards "working class" attitude towards intellectual discussion then project your own mental obsession onto other people whenever they use words like bairn... you're a fucking sad sack.

If you want to wank off about how they are just like the black and tans or whatever then knock yourself out, it's completely irrelevant though.

where has that been suggested, dickhead?

The fucking organisations don't matter you dick.

so i was right in my analysis, that is where your disagreement lies. now for the sake of all of us who aren't so thick as to fall for that shit can you fuck off out of this informational/analytical discussion you fucking troll?

 

[Das Uberdog]

And if the far right didn't have these grievances to latch on to, or if a pro-working class force was already addressing these grievances, then the far right wouldn't have any traction.

Cause/consequence.

what a fucking illiterate understanding of ideology. i thought the re-emergence of Gramsci had given us all a bit more of a nuanced understanding of political culture and power. and i thought that the lessons of the 20th century had taught the left a little bit more about bare essential survival tactics.

yes, the left isn't dealing with these issues as it ought to, but placing the entire blame of an emerging far right on the failures of the left to challenge capitalism is just 3rd period Stalinism. the issue is that the cultural and the material actually intermingle, and regardless of the left's effectiveness at combatting poverty and deprivation, if we fail to win the cultural arguments then the fasc can still move, they can still gather support.

not to mention that the far right voids rational debate by indulging in people's emotions and skews notions of reality by pandering to their base cultural prejudices. not only do the left have to be actively culturally engaging with chauvanism on a cultural level, we also have to understand that beyond a point the only way to operate is to physically secure our position. Newcastle SWP, amongst others, is currently fucked - they can't hold a public meeting which the EDL aren't Ok with - because every time they do they get battered. EDL have, as posted just above, recently been attacking Labour Party offices, broadening out their political grievances to those with the broader left.

when i go back home to Lancs there are masses of kids marching home from school every day chanting E-E-EDL. my sister is friends with Muslim kids at the same school, where they're constantly harrassed and abused. a few weeks ago a large bunch of 15 'EDL' lads were threatening to rip off her friend's hijab. the last political stall the SWP did in my town was collared by two massive Nazis - in every pub you go in on a Friday/Saturday night there's always a fucking rowdy EDL contingent mouthing off their chants. perhaps Lancs is out of the ordinary, but they're taking this place by storm. fuck housing shortages, they've been bad for ages and we never had this situation 3 years ago. what the EDL have allowed to develop is a widespread and popular culture of thuggish bullying towards minority communities. you and butchers can fuck right off with your dismissive cuntery.

 

[Proper Tidy]

yeah right, so we all understand you hate words such as 'parallel' and 'profound'... laughable you take this culturally backwards "working class" attitude towards intellectual discussion then project your own mental obsession onto other people whenever they use words like bairn... you're a fucking sad sack.

I'm all for using the correct words in the appropriate context. What I fucking hate is gobshites with a little knowledge dressing up their idiot warblings and making what they say - which is usually of little merit anyway - impenetrable or at least unappealing to most people. Profoundly.

I am also not butchers. I have never mentioned bairns.

All the zulus' faces blend into one after a while.

If you are a) Scottish or b) from the NE then it is acceptable.

Do they say bairn in Cumbria? Probably. So Cumbrians are acceptable too.

where has that been suggested, dickhead?

Who fucking cares if they are like ulster loyalists or peruvian bandits or whatever? Why does it matter? Even if they were a carbon copy of some previous group of loons, it would still be an entirely different social and historical context. Wank youself off with psuedo-knowldge all you like but don't think it counts for shit.

so i was right in my analysis, that is where your disagreement lies. now for the sake of all of us who aren't so thick as to fall for that shit can you fuck off out of this informational/analytical discussion you fucking troll?

Because I would quite like a debate on how we can challenge the growth of the far right. I just disagree that this can be done by focussing our energies on the organisations themselves. Unless the social inequality and exclusion that feeds them is addressed then these organisations will exist.

my analysis

informational/analytical discussion

Lol

 

[Proper Tidy]

what a fucking illiterate understanding of ideology. i thought the re-emergence of Gramsci had given us all a bit more of a nuanced understanding of political culture and power. and i thought that the lessons of the 20th century had taught the left a little bit more about bare essential survival tactics.

yes, the left isn't dealing with these issues as it ought to, but placing the entire blame of an emerging far right on the failures of the left to challenge capitalism is just 3rd period Stalinism.

Except I'm not. Here it is again:

And if the far right didn't have these grievances to latch on to, or if a pro-working class force was already addressing these grievances, then the far right wouldn't have any traction.

Note the first part.

the issue is that the cultural and the material actually intermingle

Lol. Is rain wet?

and regardless of the left's effectiveness at combatting poverty and deprivation, if we fail to win the cultural arguments then the fasc can still move, they can still gather support.

Bollocks.

not to mention that the far right voids rational debate by indulging in people's emotions and skews notions of reality by pandering to their base cultural prejudices. not only do the left have to be actively culturally engaging with chauvanism on a cultural level, we also have to understand that beyond a point the only way to operate is to physically secure our position. Newcastle SWP, amongst others, is currently fucked - they can't hold a public meeting which the EDL aren't Ok with - because every time they do they get battered. EDL have, as posted just above, recently been attacking Labour Party offices, broadening out their political grievances to those with the broader left.

So?

when i go back home to Lancs

Who do you say bairns if you are from Lancs?

there are masses of kids marching home from school every day chanting E-E-EDL. my sister is friends with Muslim kids at the same school, where they're constantly harrassed and abused. a few weeks ago a large bunch of 15 'EDL' lads were threatening to rip off her friend's hijab. the last political stall the SWP did in my town was collared by two massive Nazis - in every pub you go in on a Friday/Saturday night there's always a fucking rowdy EDL contingent mouthing off their chants. perhaps Lancs is out of the ordinary, but they're taking this place by storm. fuck housing shortages, they've been bad for ages and we never had this situation 3 years ago. what the EDL have allowed to develop is a widespread and popular culture of thuggish bullying towards minority communities. you and butchers can fuck right off with your dismissive cuntery.

What point are you making? It sounds like 'see, i'm not middle class'.

 

[Das Uberdog]

you'd be fun to twat

 

[Das Uberdog]

just ignore all cultural/historical parallels, they're too middle class

utter fucking cunt

 

[Das Uberdog]

language is too middle class. using language is a sign of pretending not to be middle class. absolute fucking moron... is this the workerist bullshit they're teaching you in Milly?

 

[Das Uberdog]

it'd be funny if you didn't genuinely want your head caving in

 

[Proper Tidy]

you'd be fun to twat

it'd be funny if you didn't genuinely want your head caving in

Ace. You'd be the man to do that Das?

SWP hardman.

 

[Das Uberdog]

if you'd said what you've just told me a moment ago in person, i wouldn't have thought for a second before smashing your face in. me talking about the kids from my old school walking past my house somehow me pretending not to be middle class, you fucking turd.

 

[Proper Tidy]

if you'd said what you've just told me a moment ago in person, i wouldn't have thought for a second before smashing your face in. me talking about the kids from my old school walking past my house somehow me pretending not to be middle class, you fucking turd.

Are you a proper street tough Das?

Mixing it up, bairns everywhere, whatalad

 

[Das Uberdog]

ha ha, seriously dickhead you should just hope our paths don't cross. i've no doubt you've got an image in your head of some skinny, long-haired student nerd and i think you'd be somewhat shocked by the physical reality.

not everyone spends as much time combing their internet image as "working class" "language is for students" you.

utter prick

 

[Das Uberdog]

note this all started because you made fucking unsubstantiated personal attacks for about the umpty 1st time in a row

you can still apologise

 

[Proper Tidy]

ha ha, seriously dickhead you should just hope our paths don't cross. i've no doubt you've got an image in your head of some skinny, long-haired student nerd and i think you'd be somewhat shocked by the physical reality.

Internet gold.

I will cower before your physical reality.

not everyone spends as much time combing their internet image as "working class" "language is for students" you.

utter prick

I'm glad you like my internet image.

note this all started because you made fucking unsubstantiated personal attacks for about the umpty 1st time in a row

Did I? Where?

you can still apologise

Mint.

SWP cadre school - how to offer somebody out on the internet. Speaker - Martin Smith.

 

[Das Uberdog]

funny guy

 

[Proper Tidy]

hard man

 

[Das Uberdog]

read back over your posts then come back and tell me if you don't think you're completely fucking out of order. i'm just no longer interested in having this out with some fucking knobhead who's only concern is to 'out' me as being middle class and is willing to be as completely apolitical as they like in order to do so

 

[Proper Tidy]

read back over your posts then come back and tell me if you don't think you're completely fucking out of order.

Okay, I've re-read them. And, instead of discussing the actual politics, you invoked some personal - and unsubstantiated - tale about how real you are, on the sharp end, etc. Which I suspect is only loosely based in reality, if at all. Whatever the truth, it is still the internet equivalent of flailing around face down in the paddling pool, inflatable wings everywhere.

Then you offered me out. Lol.

i'm just no longer interested in having this out with some fucking knobhead who's only concern is to 'out' me as being middle class and is willing to be as completely apolitical as they like in order to do so

Good for you. Go Das.