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Das Uberdog said:
it's also difficult to recruit a load of kids who've signed up against Islam to broaden out their scope into trashing UAF/SWP meetings... in their 'active' branches they seem to keep their 'activist' schedule busy with small scale publicity stunts and weird shit like that Blackburn anti-Halal protest.
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Yeah but no but...No one said anything about recruiting from the ranks of the EDL. They don't represent WC. I'm talking in general. There are millions of working class people and there are loads of different attitudes and tones and varying cultural aspects. A left wing culture has not been cultivated amongst the wc. It has been deliberatley allowed to wither. Take Spain for example, In Madrid and Catalunya the anti fascists are working class and militant. It's part of their culture. Whole football crews are reds. In Madrid the skinheads organize anti fascist boxing tournaments where more than a thousand attend. Why? because they have maintained traditions...

So, where does the left recruit, then?
 
taffboy gwyrdd said:
They reckon they are going to protest 4 hours a day for a month outside a Blackburn KFC. That's some commitment, why dont these keen AR vegan activists get along to an ALF Gathering as well?
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they can only have 15 people at a time, they started it Saturday, i cant see it lasting a month, i would so love to be close enough to join them for an hour or two then nip in and get some food :D
 
Anudder Oik said:
Yeah but no but...No one said anything about recruiting from the ranks of the EDL. They don't represent WC. I'm talking in general. There are millions of working class people and there are loads of different attitudes and tones and varying cultural aspects. A left wing culture has not been cultivated amongst the wc. It has been deliberatley allowed to wither. Take Spain for example, In Madrid and Catalunya the anti fascists are working class and militant. It's part of their culture. Whole football crews are reds. In Madrid the skinheads organize anti fascist boxing tournaments where more than a thousand attend. Why? because they have maintained traditions...

So, where does the left recruit, then?
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that wasn't what i was trying to say - i meant it's hard for the EDL to transfer their own recruits from one form of activity to another.
 
Das Uberdog said:
that wasn't what i was trying to say - i meant it's hard for the EDL to transfer their own recruits from one form of activity to another.
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Ok, now I get ya. The wording led to a misunderstanding. By the looks of things they "are" getting some results in transferring EDL attention in other directions, ie, against the left.

Look at Barnsley. About 45 of them turned up to defend "democracy and free speech". In other words the right for the BNP to have a stall. That is Open EDL BNP collaboration. Nothing to do with Islam.

The motivation behind their appearance must be one of the following. Either that they think the UAF is their enemy so therefore turn up wherever they are or in Barnsley all EDL are BNP, or EDL dupes get drawn in because after 15 years of so called respectability the BNP are not properly recognized as nazis.
 
Anudder Oik said:
Ok, now I get ya. The wording led to a misunderstanding. By the looks of things they "are" getting some results in transferring EDL attention in other directions, ie, against the left.

Look at Barnsley. About 45 of them turned up to defend "democracy and free speech". In other words the right for the BNP to have a stall. That is Open EDL BNP collaboration. Nothing to do with Islam.

The motivation behind their appearance must be one of the following. Either that they think the UAF is their enemy so therefore turn up wherever they are or in Barnsley all EDL are BNP, or EDL dupes get drawn in because after 15 years of so called respectability the BNP are not properly recognized as nazis.
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Take the former. All they will have seen is UAF et al threatening to 'smash the edl' on placards and flyers for meetings.
 
My brain has been thrown into crisis as a result of a large argument I had with 3 female work colleagues who I was travelling in a car with on the way home. I've spoken before about my workplace and how it presents opportunities for me to understand working class attitudes as it relates to EDL-type stuff, as Im almost the only middle class (by virtue of having teachers for parents) person who works here. Well tonight it became too much, started off as one of these women mentioning that 'we'/'the british' were the only ones in the country who didnt have human rights, and then descended into stuff about the black music awards, not being allowed to dislike someone who happened to be asian who was also a twat, because that would be deemed to be racist, etc. No attempt by me to talk about politics, economics, the media, or human obsessions with differences rather than similarities made the slightest bit of difference, no matter how I put it. In fact it got worse, and the woman who had previously lied to me by saying that she wouldnt let her boyfriend go on a local EDL rally, when in fact I subsequently found out that she has told other people that she attended the 2nd EDL event that came here to Nuneaton, started with the old 'we are going to become a minority in our own country'. Challenging this 'fact' proved futile, as expected.

So anyways, I've got to get out. Im all too aware of the reasons why this sort of attitude has arisen, but people arent interested in arguing about these underlying causes, and I dont know how to handle this stuff anymore. I dont think Im equipped to fight the battle on this front, at least not without a shred of hope that anything I can say will make a blind bit of difference. I just cant take it, right now Im going mad, shouting at fuming, drooling and wibbling, planning to resign on Monday morning when my boss is next available. AAAAAAAAAAArrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
 
elbows said:
My brain has been thrown into crisis as a result of a large argument I had with 3 female work colleagues who I was travelling in a car with on the way home. I've spoken before about my workplace and how it presents opportunities for me to understand working class attitudes as it relates to EDL-type stuff, as Im almost the only middle class (by virtue of having teachers for parents) person who works here. Well tonight it became too much, started off as one of these women mentioning that 'we'/'the british' were the only ones in the country who didnt have human rights, and then descended into stuff about the black music awards, not being allowed to dislike someone who happened to be asian who was also a twat, because that would be deemed to be racist, etc. No attempt by me to talk about politics, economics, the media, or human obsessions with differences rather than similarities made the slightest bit of difference, no matter how I put it. In fact it got worse, and the woman who had previously lied to me by saying that she wouldnt let her boyfriend go on a local EDL rally, when in fact I subsequently found out that she has told other people that she attended the 2nd EDL event that came here to Nuneaton, started with the old 'we are going to become a minority in our own country'. Challenging this 'fact' proved futile, as expected.

So anyways, I've got to get out. Im all too aware of the reasons why this sort of attitude has arisen, but people arent interested in arguing about these underlying causes, and I dont know how to handle this stuff anymore. I dont think Im equipped to fight the battle on this front, at least not without a shred of hope that anything I can say will make a blind bit of difference. I just cant take it, right now Im going mad, shouting at fuming, drooling and wibbling, planning to resign on Monday morning when my boss is next available. AAAAAAAAAAArrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
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Ask her how come a lot of white people have won the MOBOs over the last 10 years? Watch her head explode.
 
I've been doing a bit of this recently and deduced that the best course of action is to definitely not argue. It doesn't work, it just entrenches people.

The best thing to do is to allow them to talk. Lots. Now and again you'll nudge it in the right direction or throw in a particular question. But apart from that say little. Because they're eager to fill the conversational void. And when you don't respond they question what it is they have said. And they talk themselves into knots.
 
Cheers for the tips :) I've often sone such things in the past, cant say it achieved meaningful results but it at least kept things calm and allowed more space for me to understand their attitudes. But I think Im done this time, I cant fight on this front when I cant even stand to hear this shit anymore, right now I never want to see these people again in any capacity, they have worn me out, broken my spirit. Yet I am caught between a rock and a hard place, because Im not going to shit on the working class by adopting the bbc type tactic for dealing with EDL etc. So I will retreat, the struggle is futile when fought on this front, or at least Im not cut out for it. So to protect my opinion of the working class I must run away for now, and will only come back when the struggle is being waged in different ways, ways where I can find some common ground.
 
elbows said:
My brain has been thrown into crisis as a result of a large argument I had with 3 female work colleagues who I was travelling in a car with on the way home. I've spoken before about my workplace and how it presents opportunities for me to understand working class attitudes as it relates to EDL-type stuff, as Im almost the only middle class (by virtue of having teachers for parents) person who works here. Well tonight it became too much, started off as one of these women mentioning that 'we'/'the british' were the only ones in the country who didnt have human rights, and then descended into stuff about the black music awards, not being allowed to dislike someone who happened to be asian who was also a twat, because that would be deemed to be racist, etc. No attempt by me to talk about politics, economics, the media, or human obsessions with differences rather than similarities made the slightest bit of difference, no matter how I put it. In fact it got worse, and the woman who had previously lied to me by saying that she wouldnt let her boyfriend go on a local EDL rally, when in fact I subsequently found out that she has told other people that she attended the 2nd EDL event that came here to Nuneaton, started with the old 'we are going to become a minority in our own country'. Challenging this 'fact' proved futile, as expected.

So anyways, I've got to get out. Im all too aware of the reasons why this sort of attitude has arisen, but people arent interested in arguing about these underlying causes, and I dont know how to handle this stuff anymore. I dont think Im equipped to fight the battle on this front, at least not without a shred of hope that anything I can say will make a blind bit of difference. I just cant take it, right now Im going mad, shouting at fuming, drooling and wibbling, planning to resign on Monday morning when my boss is next available. AAAAAAAAAAArrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
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They're winding you up, mate. They know you're political. Next time they talk like that surprise them with a complete change of heart and adopt the politics of one of the more extreme right wingers who go on EDL demos. Turn into an out an out racist for 5 minutes and check their reaction. You may be surprised by the result
 
Anudder Oik said:
They're winding you up, mate. They know you're political. Next time they talk like that surprise them with a complete change of heart and adopt the politics of one of the more extreme right wingers who go on EDL demos. Turn into an out an out racist for 5 minutes and check their reaction. You may be surprised by the result
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A fun idea but I cant do that sort of thing, Im just not capable of ranting about stuff that I dont believe in, at least not without adopting a comedy voice doing it parody style.

Certainly Im not feeling hard done by or ganged up on by them, I speak freely about my strongly held beliefs a lot, including at work, so I cant complain when others exercise the same right. Its just that I've had enough, I dont think I can bring myself to serve these people in the workplace any longer, it feels like a betrayal of what I want to do with my time as a living being.

I think the extreme juxtaposition between this shit and what I have been feeling while watching the uprisings in other countries has likely contributed to my failure to be able to deal with this shit right now. I've not been able to find another human being in my daily life apart from my mum with which to share the triumphs and setbacks of the people who are struggling overseas. If it wasnt for being able to talk to people on the net I think my hometown would have utterly killed my spirit years ago, and I would have felt the urgent need to escape much sooner. A part of me never wants to abandon this place, but the area has been mangled by exploitation, poverty and sick media for too long, its a monster whose redeeming features are presently invisible to me, although I know they are there somewhere.
 
I just copied this off the EDL facebook. It's fresh from 3 hours ago.

Why when i turn the TV on or read a paper is the first thing i see 9/10 times a muslim burning a flag or waving his hook around telling us to read a book that is written backwards because its right and because we live in our own country with our own traditions, rights laws and customs that we deserve to die because we ...
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Answer: Because the media is controlled and because there are interests that are manipulating you so that you become islamaphobic, so that your mindset is so confused that you act like a robot, helping to divide and rule. Get a life...
 
Spanky Longhorn said:
You're a clown chief.
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I may not have worded those sentiments very well, but perhaps you could expand on this point for me. In what way does me trying to make the best of having to listen to endless racist shit at work make me a clown? Should I write all these people off using disturbing labels such as chav? There are many ways I could insulate my brain against the hideous shit I've had to listen to for more than a decade, but instead I've tried to learn something from it rather than become Jeremy Paxman and just sneer or laugh or dehumanise. Why does that make me a clown? Hell half he reason I've put up with all this is because middle class shit winds me up just as much. Feel free to mock or ridicule my stance but please try to add at least a little detail so that I may try to learn from my mistakes.
 
People are people. Class is hugely significant in terms of economic and social interests, but you don't need to relate to working class people any differently than people you assume to be from your class. Same fears, same worries, same conflicts.

I almost can't believe I'm saying this!
 
FrogWoman

I know that's a horrible situation to be in, but please dont even think about throwing the job in because of a couple of under-informed bigots. That's a victory for, well, under informed bigotry. Have they ever discussed the banking heist and the cuts?
 
Its me, not frogwoman that has been saying this stuff, but thanks anyway.

Proper Tidy, the possible reason for my complete bumbling around this topic of class here is that I dont normally look at class either as it relates to myself or other people that I actually know, indeed I've sometimes bitched about class obsessions on u75. However when it comes to my work colleagues in general and the attention I've paid to EDL due to them turning up in my town a few times in 2010 and causing trouble, its done my head in and lately I've been struggling to cope or to think through my feelings and talk about this stuff. Generally I hate human obsessions with the differences between people instead of the similarities, but I feel so isolated right now that I've likely fallen into the same trap. I struggle badly to find common ground at work, there are plenty of similarities really but not very many in terms of topics of conversations, where everything from the way they talk about women to these race & cultural issues to politics and economics, and beyond into day-to-day stuff like hobbies and social activities, makes me feel like we are on different planets. Im left with only the workplace and what happens there as the main common-ground, which means I get on fine if Im bitching about the management and owners who are driving everyone crazy at the moment, but as soon as I veer away from this topic disaster strikes and I am left floundering.
 
Proper Tidy said:
Class is hugely significant in terms of economic and social interests, but you don't need to relate to working class people any differently than people you assume to be from your class. Same fears, same worries, same conflicts.
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surely first sentence contradicts second sentence?
 
elbows said:
Its me, not frogwoman that has been saying this stuff, but thanks anyway.

Proper Tidy, the possible reason for my complete bumbling around this topic of class here is that I dont normally look at class either as it relates to myself or other people that I actually know, indeed I've sometimes bitched about class obsessions on u75. However when it comes to my work colleagues in general and the attention I've paid to EDL due to them turning up in my town a few times in 2010 and causing trouble, its done my head in and lately I've been struggling to cope or to think through my feelings and talk about this stuff. Generally I hate human obsessions with the differences between people instead of the similarities, but I feel so isolated right now that I've likely fallen into the same trap. I struggle badly to find common ground at work, there are plenty of similarities really but not very many in terms of topics of conversations, where everything from the way they talk about women to these race & cultural issues to politics and economics, and beyond into day-to-day stuff like hobbies and social activities, makes me feel like we are on different planets. Im left with only the workplace and what happens there as the main common-ground, which means I get on fine if Im bitching about the management and owners who are driving everyone crazy at the moment, but as soon as I veer away from this topic disaster strikes and I am left floundering.
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Dunno. It's fucking difficult. I've never been in that position for a prolonged period, lucky I guess. If it was or 2 people like that you could probably live with it, when you are thoroughly the odd one out it's a lot more difficult. Are there some in your workplace who might not actually fit the mould? Could be more liberal or don't actually join in in the right wing stuff? Dont want to be patronising or come out with silly ideas, but perhaps having a decent politics book on you that you read occasionally instead of talking with them might get one of them to say "what are you reading" and that starts of a conversation far more on your terms. Truth is though that islamohate is pretty rife among some people and you wont change that, or even your experience of it, by leaving. If it was me I would keep banging on about the banks and cuts. If the muslims had stolen £10s of thousands from every citizen they would be out with the pitchforks, so what's the difference?
 
elbows said:
Its me, not frogwoman that has been saying this stuff, but thanks anyway.

Proper Tidy, the possible reason for my complete bumbling around this topic of class here is that I dont normally look at class either as it relates to myself or other people that I actually know, indeed I've sometimes bitched about class obsessions on u75. However when it comes to my work colleagues in general and the attention I've paid to EDL due to them turning up in my town a few times in 2010 and causing trouble, its done my head in and lately I've been struggling to cope or to think through my feelings and talk about this stuff. Generally I hate human obsessions with the differences between people instead of the similarities, but I feel so isolated right now that I've likely fallen into the same trap. I struggle badly to find common ground at work, there are plenty of similarities really but not very many in terms of topics of conversations, where everything from the way they talk about women to these race & cultural issues to politics and economics, and beyond into day-to-day stuff like hobbies and social activities, makes me feel like we are on different planets. Im left with only the workplace and what happens there as the main common-ground, which means I get on fine if Im bitching about the management and owners who are driving everyone crazy at the moment, but as soon as I veer away from this topic disaster strikes and I am left floundering.
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This kind of thing will only bother you during the period in life you expect things to get better. Once you come to realise that the world is just one big fucking nuthouse where all the stupid bastards have the loudest voices, it will come to bother you less.

Mark my words.
 
Just the same as Rangers supporters waving the Star of David. They do it because they think the opposition supports the Palestinians
 
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