EDL watch

[ViolentPanda]

You sound like david starkey.

Load of arse.





Taffboy is nowhere near as eloquent!

 

[ViolentPanda]

even in the barmy english sumer theres no time too be lost in saving ourselves from the muslamic hoards!​

yet evil lefties are all ways an obsticle​

have you seen theese left wing places online say so called “racism” is bad and good english patriots like edl is racist and fashist?​

some even have NERVE to laugh at EDL and mr lennon who is never wrong and therefour inflammable​

Please don't quote that. It was excrutiating enough to read the first time round.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Of course, my point to SN had nothing directly to do with fascism or the EDL at all, but of his placing ignorance among the working class ignorance in the same ballpark as working class joblessness/poverty. If he/we happened to be talking about racism and bigotry among people who are middle class (or at least might think it) I could spout off about that as well.

But people have been so keen to see bigotry where there isn't any that they fall over themselves and essentially defend it with liberal contorsions that are as wrong as they are patronising.

You're wrong, but you're so wrapped up in feeling victimised that you can't see how wrong you are. The contortions are mostly yours.

 

[frogwoman]

Of course, my point to SN had nothing directly to do with fascism or the EDL at all, but of his placing ignorance among the working class ignorance in the same ballpark as working class joblessness/poverty. If he/we happened to be talking about racism and bigotry among people who are middle class (or at least might think it) I could spout off about that as well.

But people have been so keen to see bigotry where there isn't any that they fall over themselves and essentially defend it with liberal contorsions that are as wrong as they are patronising.

my family is as PB as they come. They don't know anything about elizabethan madrigals and the are middle class, like going to theatres, seeing foreign films etc.

The issue that i am having is that this shit is irrelevant. It's completley fucking irrelevant. Somebody could not be able to read or write but still know the difference between right and wrong, still HATE racism etc. I've got mates who have serious problems with literacy etc but are still supportive of strikes, unions and that, hate racism etc.

Somebody could be completely illiterate but understand the nature of fascism etc, in fact in an actual fascist state, they'd be the first ones to fall victim to it. How is taking the piss out of spelling and writing challenging the fash in any way? this stuff is what they fucking thrive on. They are desperate to look for examples of how lefties are being elitist, etc, and the tragic thing is that those examples are not exactly hard to come by. Blogs like yours might be momentarily funny to a handful of people on group like expose and shit like that but they're not are they?

People like you with your barely disguised prejudces are a danger to anti-fascism. More than that a lot of people with such problems or who are close to people who do will take a look at your shit and not want to get involved with anti-fascism at all because they will think that's what it's about.

not to be alarmist but we are going to, imo, witness the rebirth of real fascism on a serious scale during the next few years and the near certainty of serious physical confrontation with the fash. we're in the midlde of the worst recession since the 30s, you honestly think that this sneering middle class crap is going to help? these people are going to both be their recruiting ground and, probably more often than that, their victims. you think the fash don't laugh at people with poor spelling etc as well or who are "uncultured"? you think the fash don't lament the fact that that type of people five them a "bad image" etc? you think theres none of them who love correctly spelt language and love the same shit you do?

 

[ViolentPanda]

You're an idiot. I was taking the piss out of your barely concealed class prejudice. I don't think it's controversial, outside your daft liberal circles, to point out that reduced educational opportunities have consequences.

Effects on what social scientists call "life-chances" being foremost - shorter life expectancy, poorer health, wider exposure to adverse occupational and environmental factors. There's a long old list.

 

[ViolentPanda]

When the right opportunity has presented itself, though, I have on occasion relished humiliating, nay, destroying with words those middle class idiots who think in such a way.

I'm a petty man.

Correcting misapprehensions is never petty, even if you laugh maliciously at the misapprehender once you've corrected them.

 

[frogwoman]

If a working class person is uneducated it's their own fault. This is your position, right? Just to be clear.

that "position" is a crock of shit. i need to stop now before i get really wound up;

 

[Captain Hurrah]

you think the fash don't laugh at people with poor spelling etc as well or who are "uncultured"? you think the fash don't lament the fact that that type of people five them a "bad image" etc? you think theres none of them who love correctly spelt language and love the same shit you do?

A fair few fascists will of course sneer at and disregard the EDL'ers. See them as rabble.

 

[Captain Hurrah]

Correcting misapprehensions is never petty, even if you laugh maliciously at the misapprehender once you've corrected them.

Yes, but I can be quite abusive at times. If they deserve it.

 

[frogwoman]

Of course they will and do. But hey, why challenge their shit when you can always laugh at the lumpen

 

[Captain Hurrah]

that "position" is a crock of shit. i need to stop now before i get really wound up;

A prevalent one though. I left school without a single GCSE. It was a very disrupted home life, not an inherent lack of ability, that affected my performance at school.

 

[frogwoman]

A prevalent one though. I left school without a single GCSE. It was a very disrupted home life, not an inherent lack of ability, that affected my performance at school.

I have really good mates who did too.

 

[Captain Hurrah]

So do I. People who would see taffboy as just another middle class outsider, looking in on something he doesn't understand.

 

[DotCommunist]

Reading that Owen Jones book, his frank astonishment at the reality of class prejudices being spouted by his liberal left crowd aside, has a nice turn of phrase 'socially acceptable liberal bigotry'.

 

[_angel_]

A prevalent one though. I left school without a single GCSE. It was a very disrupted home life, not an inherent lack of ability, that affected my performance at school.

You could get loads of em if you wanted to now, except the bastard government want to charge you for the privilege!
My Dad did all his A levels at night school but I'm guessing it was probably free in the 60s?

 

[Captain Hurrah]

Reading that Owen Jones book, his frank astonishment at the reality of class prejudices being spouted by his liberal left crowd aside, has a nice turn of phrase 'socially acceptable liberal bigotry'.

I haven't read that yet. I'm guessing it'll only say what a lot have known (even personally) for years.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Yes, but I can be quite abusive at times. If they deserve it.

Then, comrade, one should not think of it as "abuse", but as "firm rebuke".

 

[ViolentPanda]

You could get loads of em if you wanted to now, except the bastard government want to charge you for the privilege!
My Dad did all his A levels at night school but I'm guessing it was probably free in the 60s?

It used to be teaching free, but you had to pay an exam fee (because the FE college had to pay a fee to the exam board), AFAICR.

 

[Captain Hurrah]

You could get loads of em if you wanted to now, except the bastard government want to charge you for the privilege!
My Dad did all his A levels at night school but I'm guessing it was probably free in the 60s?

I could still just about manage to do it at some point, even higher education. Others aren't so lucky, or are, understandably, too afraid.

They want us to be put off. It's not for us. And they're scum.

 

[DotCommunist]

I haven't read that yet. I'm guessing it'll only say what a lot have known (even personally) for years.

oh yes, nothing new there- but backed with clear prose, facts and figures, comparisons etc- its good that such a book will be being read by people who unthinkingly express class prejudice despite considering themselves left/progressive

 

[ViolentPanda]

A fair few fascists will of course sneer at and disregard the EDL'ers. See them as rabble.

True, but as occasionally-useful rabble. The far-right will always need a "rabble", much as they'd like to pretend otherwise.

 

[_angel_]

I could still just about manage to do it at some point, even higher education. Others aren't so lucky, or are, understandably, too afraid.

They want us to be put off. It's not for us. And they're scum.

It's not even *just* the working class they hate it's the lower middle as well (think tuition fee increases, cutting the police and whatever other bonkers shite they're dreaming up) Talk about shitting on your own voter base. It's bizarre and shows they totally don't get it.

 

[ViolentPanda]

A prevalent one though. I left school without a single GCSE. It was a very disrupted home life, not an inherent lack of ability, that affected my performance at school.

My school career resulted in a CSE grade 2 (or B, I can never remember which) in Maths, an O level grade A for English, an O level grade A for Human Biology, and a CSE grade 4 for geography. I could blame part of that on having moved in with foster parents at the beginning of the school year, but a lot of it was actually arsing about on my part. I knew I couldn't afford to go to college (the old "parental contribution" trap), and I was fucked off with the world.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I haven't read that yet. I'm guessing it'll only say what a lot have known (even personally) for years.

It's always equal parts refreshing and despair-making when someone from the middle-classes realises it, though.

 

[Captain Hurrah]

I see.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I could still just about manage to do it at some point, even higher education. Others aren't so lucky, or are, understandably, too afraid.

They want us to be put off. It's not for us. And they're scum.

They also want to put us off because we prove something that they can't bear to admit - that money can't buy academic achievement, intelligence or the ability to do something well, but effort can. That's why state-schoolers consistently leave university with better results than their public school counterparts. That doesn't sit well with the combination of sociobiological bullshit and market principles much of our ruling classes subscribe to.

 

[ViolentPanda]

dubble post

 

[Captain Hurrah]

oh yes, nothing new there- but backed with clear prose, facts and figures, comparisons etc- its good that such a book will be being read by people who unthinkingly express class prejudice despite considering themselves left/progressive

Culturally-based, anti-working class prejudice is very much a part of left-liberalism. Unfortunately people also think they're left-wing, or at least 'progressive' socially, but are in actuality just ignorant little Thatcherite children.

 

[frogwoman]

It's always equal parts refreshing and despair-making when someone from the middle-classes realises it, though.

thing is that the middle classes aren't that much removed from the working classes though, at least not most of the time. my parents are middle class but they still have working class friends, family members, etc.

 

[frogwoman]

The worry is of course that when anti fascism gets associated with this sort of sneering bullshit ... well. Not so much that people are going to get turned into fash because most people aren't like that, but the fact that they are going to get turned against organised anti-fascism and against progressive working class politics itself.

Together with the atomisation of soceity which has took place over the last 30 years it's a serious concern and seriously limits our ability to fight back. I hope taffboy is thinking of this. Doubt it though