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no, not at all. I don't think that the UAF help create the "conditions", but they're happy to line up with people that do

you asked "what do you mean by the people who help create the conditions for fascism and the far-right to develop" and i answered. i think "unity" in these matters is overrated.

I agree, and if it's any consolation I avoid working the UAF unless I actually really have to. I even stopped someone from punching Weymann Bennett in the face in Dewsbury not too long ago, although part of me regrets that.

For paying BNP members for info in 2006?

Would you pay a disgruntled racist smackhead £20 to find out where the BNP hold their meetings in your town? Or are you morally against that kind of thing? Fuck morality, that's for methodist ministers and boy scouts, just do you gotta do.
 
I agree, and if it's any consolation I avoid working the UAF unless I actually really have to. I even stopped someone from punching Weymann Bennett in the face in Dewsbury not too long ago, although part of me regrets that.

:D
 
I'm still waiting for you to come up with any kind of material evidence whatsoever that the UAF are responsible for the early growth of the EDL. I'm not going to oblige you by going answer these questions until you do me the courtesy of answering mine which came first.
You're really not are you? I've asked you what material evidence could possibly exist. Are you going to give me an answer? Do you want your question answered or not? Is your question serious? If so,then help me answer it.
The idea that the UAF helped create a state of hysteria over the EDL, which in turn boosted the appeal of the EDL to soft-racists and fascists, pre-supposes that the UAF is actually capable of having that kind of influence, which they simply are not. Outside of the left, the UAF's and anti-fascist media's influence is non-existent, so its laughable that you think they somehow encouraged the EDL in their early formation. Half of these kids who've got involved in the EDL don't even know the SWP exists, and yet somehow you're telling me that the SWP/UAF's anti-racism is the primary motivating factor behind them getting involved in this? It's ridiculous. Then, to top this off, when given 3 pretty simply and straightforward alternative theories as to why the EDL have grown in the way they have, you demand that I "name names" (lol) in order to back this up, demanding from me a level of detail and evidence that you are completely incapable of giving for your own argument.

It not only presupposes the idea, it's based on it. You've seen clueless cunts going around going "are you UAF?" They don't know who the UAF are. Why do they hve to know who the SWP are for that well evidenced group dynamic to exist and work? You've strangled yourself.

How about you make some small degree of effort to back up these fancilful claims of yours, show some kind of evidence which can prove the UAF played the primary role in the development and growth of the early EDL, then I might be inclinedto give you some names. And for the record, I don't know the names of all the ex-BNP members and activists who are now in the EDL, most of them aren't high-level organizers as you well know, they're middle-ranking lay activists and random BNP types, people who I know as much my face as by name. Do you think I'm sat on huge and comprehensive lists of names or something? Get real.

You haven't got any names to give me. I've asked you what form this evidence you demand could take. Help us both out and answer the question.
 
I agree, and if it's any consolation I avoid working the UAF unless I actually really have to. I even stopped someone from punching Weymann Bennett in the face in Dewsbury not too long ago, although part of me regrets that.

Would you pay a disgruntled racist smackhead £20 to find out where the BNP hold their meetings in your town? Or are you morally against that kind of thing? Fuck morality, that's for methodist ministers and boy scouts, just do you gotta do.
I know where they're meeting. You don't need to do that shit to find out.They're not the french resistance. Odd.
 

The incident in question was pretty interesting. It was one of the worst UAF demo's I've ever been too, even by their rapidly falling standards. At first I spent the afternoon in Dewsbury itself, just talking to people and so on, until the police worked out we were anti-fascists and told us that we either got into the UAF pen or we'd be arrested there and then. So, rather than go home before the EDL had even arrived, we sat in the UAF pen. About 50 people there altogether, with about 10 of them being SWP'ers from outside the area. Then, as the EDL arrived, a large group of about 100 or so asian youth from a nearby estate arrived, and made their way to the UAF pen. I have a lot of time for these kids and I was grateful for the opportunity to talk to a few of 'em about the EDL. They gave one of them the mic, under their little gazebo, and instantly rather than take the thing seriously just started taking the piss in a massive way, shouting and bawling, partly in English and partly in what I think was Urdu, which was pretty hilarious. After that incoherent shouting session, someone from the UAF then came on the mic and said "I think what you've heard there is an expression of the anger that is felt in the Asian community over the EDL" as if this kid was too stupid to express his anger normally, whereas in actual fact he was just taking the piss with his mates. Monumentally patronising. Everyone there who was wasn't in the SWP had their jaws wide open at this. Mr Bennett then spoke in person to some of the asian lads who turned up, and I listened in to what he was saying. Actually, this little pep talk started out quite well, as he told them about his upbringing and how he had been regularly threatened by an NF member who lived on his street as a kid, and how it took years to summon up the courage to challenge that. These kids were really interested in this part of the talk. However, eventually it started to descend into very typical SWP "trotsky for idiots" cliches shit, culminating in asking them all to join the UAF, and with another guy handing out direct debit forms for them to fill in (I shit you not) which of course totally lost their interest. They all left pretty much straight afterwards. Then, a white guy with a Pakistan cricket t-shirt on, starting talking to Weymann Bennett, taking him to task for trying to co-opt these kids into their movement, how their anger was legitimate and not something that should be controlled by a front group, all good points that I could agree with. However, this guy, right as he was started getting more and more worked up, and eventually squared up to Weymann shouting "you're a fucking anti-white racist" right in his face, which is a bit much if you ask me. For all his faults I really don't think that's fair all at all. Anyway, at this point Weymann gets angry, and tries charging into this guy, and me and a few others have to dive in and split them up. It's to this day the biggest fiasco I've ever seen at a UAF rally. There were gangs of fash videoing the whole thing from the other side of the road laughing at us the whole time. The only reason I was even there was on pain of arrest, but to be honest I think spending a few hours in the cells would be more constructive that that pile of shite.
 
You're really not are you? I've asked you what material evidence could possibly exist. Are you going to give me an answer? Do you want your question answered or not? Is your question serious? If so,then help me answer it.

I'm not sure if there is any material evidence you could bring forward, infact I'd be sure that there isn't any evidence, because it's a stupid idea in the first place. But the burden of proof is on you here, you came into this thread shouting about how the growth of the EDL is the fault of the UAF, if you can't find any evidence to back up this assertation then I suppose it begs the question why the fuck do you believe it?

And to give you a little teaser, the BNP security goon who was shagging Nick Griffin's daughter before her current fella was there, although I don't know his name, unless his name is "the BNP security goon who was shagging Nick Griffin's daughter" Y'see I don't know all their names encyclopedically, but I do know that I'm right on this, that the EDL is riddled with ex-BNP.
 
I'm not sure if there is any material evidence you could bring forward, infact I'd be sure that there isn't any evidence, because it's a stupid idea in the first place. But the burden of proof is on you here, you came into this thread shouting about how the growth of the EDL is the fault of the UAF, if you can't find any evidence to back up this assertation then I suppose it begs the question why the fuck do you believe it?

And to give you a little teaser, the BNP security goon who was shagging Nick Griffin's daughter before her current fella was there, although I don't know his name, unless his name his "the BNP security good who was shagging Nick Griffin's daughter" Y'see I don't know all their names encyclopedically, but I do know that I'm right on this, that the EDL is riddled with ex-BNP.

I came into this thread? A year before you. Now you're demanding evidence that you admit can't exist.

That's your intelligence?The publicly available searchlight smear file? And i should give up anti-fascism?
 
I came into this thread? A year before you. Now you're demanding evidence that you admit can't exist.

No not quite, there's a very but subtle but important differene, which is there's no evidence because it doesn't exist, not because it couldn't exist. You understand? If what you were saying is true then surely it'd be possible to provide something back it up, other than repetition of the same dubious claim, but because what you're saying isn't true, you can't.
 
No not quite, there's a very but subtle but important differene, which is there's no evidence because it doesn't exist, not because it couldn't exist. You understand? If what you were saying is true then surely it'd be possible to provide something back it up, other than repetition of the same dubious claim, but because what you're saying isn't true, you can't.
So,what form could this evidence take? Help me.
 
So,what form could this evidence take? Help me.

I don't know, seriously, but surely to have come to these conclusions you must have seen some kind of evidence for it, unless it's just a wild hunch you've got with nothing to back it up. Like I says, finding some kind of evidence to back up your assertations is your responsibility not mine, if you can't do then perhaps you should re-examine your argument?
 
I don't know, seriously, but surely to have come to these conclusions you must have seen some kind of evidence for it, unless it's just a wild hunch you've got with nothing to back it up. Like I says, finding some kind of evidence to back up your assertations is your responsibility not mine, if you can't do then perhaps you should re-examine your argument?
What evidence can exist? If you don't think that it can exist then looking for it is a bit daft. Demanding that's it is produced and presented to you is beyond clownlike.
You fucked this up.Back to the start delroy.
 
What evidence can exist? If you don't think that it can exist then looking for it is a bit daft. Demanding that's it produced and presented to you is beyond clownlike.

No! I've been over this with once already, I do think that the evidence could exist, if what you're saying is true. It's not like this is something that's impossible to measure. What I'm trying to say is the reason why you can't find any evidence is because you're wrong, not because it's philosophically impossible to produce evidence of this. If it existed, then you could do, but because it doesn't, you can't.
 
This is getting tiresome butchersapron, and I don't want to de-rail this thread, so if you really care deeply about this would you PM me instead of going on and on and on here.

Seriously man, if I hear this "if only the left would just do nothing then everything would be ok" line of reasoning again I'm going to piss myself laughing, and I can't afford the underwear I've turned these inside-out once already, so please give it a break.
 
No! I've been over this with once already, I do think that the evidence could exist, if what you're saying is true. It's not like this is something that's impossible to measure. What I'm trying to say is the reason why you can't find any evidence is because you're wrong, not because it's philosophically impossible to produce evidence of this. If it existed, then you could do, but because it doesn't, you can't.
How would you measure it? What would you measure delroy? Let's work on this.
 
This is getting tiresome butchersapron, and I don't want to de-rail this thread, so if you really care deeply about this would you PM me instead of going on and on and on here.

Seriously man, if I hear this "if only the left would just do nothing then everything would be ok" line of reasoning again I'm going to piss myself laughing, and I can't afford the underwear I've turned these inside-out once already, so please give it a break.
You're the only person saying this delroy. Who are 'the left' in your scenario?
 
Your claim doesn't stand up when you consider that for most of these demos UAF have tried to downplay EDL numbers and inflate their own numbers.
That's simply not true - between protests they've been banging the drum long and loud.I'm sick of hearing about yet another Cable Street round 2,about how its utterly vital to attend to stop...guess what...their growth. Of course they play down the numbers afterwards, but they never shut up about it beforehand. And what is them inflating their own numbers supposed to tell us?
 
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