EDL watch

[pepe]

hello paroxetine/serotonin i've heard of these ppl, a para military movement, all serving and ex serving personnel, they started in 2002 when some militants from somewhere were going to petrol bomb a coffin with a dead soldier in it, from what i hear the government are very concerned about them, the police surrounded parliament with 800 armed police a few months back fearing a coup was taking place, they are routing out common purpose, demos, tavistock, fabians, very tight with a lot of political ppl and top brass. please don't mind the spelling errors, cheers pepe

 

[treelover]

foil and tin come to mind...

 

[laptop]

foil and tin come to mind...

Or "self" and "aggrandising"?

 

[SpineyNorman]

hello paroxetine/serotonin i've heard of these ppl, a para military movement, all serving and ex serving personnel, they started in 2002 when some militants from somewhere were going to petrol bomb a coffin with a dead soldier in it, from what i hear the government are very concerned about them, the police surrounded parliament with 800 armed police a few months back fearing a coup was taking place, they are routing out common purpose, demos, tavistock, fabians, very tight with a lot of political ppl and top brass. please don't mind the spelling errors, cheers pepe

Hello Allan

 

[Corax]

hello paroxetine/serotonin i've heard of these ppl, a para military movement, all serving and ex serving personnel, they started in 2002 when some militants from somewhere were going to petrol bomb a coffin with a dead soldier in it, from what i hear the government are very concerned about them, the police surrounded parliament with 800 armed police a few months back fearing a coup was taking place, they are routing out common purpose, demos, tavistock, fabians, very tight with a lot of political ppl and top brass. please don't mind the spelling errors, cheers pepe

x lots

 

[FridgeMagnet]

I think I'd have noticed that.

 

[Deareg]

I think I'd have noticed that.

You were probably modding at the time.

 

[Corax]

The liberal elite probably covered it up.

 

[ViolentPanda]

hello paroxetine/serotonin i've heard of these ppl, a para military movement, all serving and ex serving personnel, they started in 2002 when some militants from somewhere were going to petrol bomb a coffin with a dead soldier in it, from what i hear the government are very concerned about them, the police surrounded parliament with 800 armed police a few months back fearing a coup was taking place, they are routing out common purpose, demos, tavistock, fabians, very tight with a lot of political ppl and top brass. please don't mind the spelling errors, cheers pepe

A coup by anyone with an ounce of strategic and tactical nous wouldn't go anywhere near Parliament. You'd cripple the transport and communications infrastructure. Why would anyone bother trying to invade an old building full of irrelevant dickheads and rubber-stampers?

 

[ViolentPanda]

I think I'd have noticed that.

Or Crispy would.

On his spycam.

 

[audiotech]

...Why would anyone bother trying to invade an old building full of irrelevant dickheads and rubber-stampers?

The 23 effers did, in Spain, that started on 23 February 1981 and ended the next day on 24 February 1981 as a failure.

 

[Anudder Oik]

Lets not derail with this troll.

 

[Corax]

Trolls have to display a bit more plausibility. Pepe's in tinfoil-hat territory.

 

[Anudder Oik]

the 'malatesta's' have pointed this out before that for a lot of right wingers like the EDL, antisemitism is irrelevant as they have so little contact with jewish communities and for many people the orthodox jewish community - who attract the most virulent antisemitism - are simply not that visible in their towns. likewise, 'blacks' are alright cos of the afro-carribean community's contribution to popular culture and the assimilation of a lot of black guys into football firmslike birmingham zulus or man city's kool kats. what is left is what we call 'anti-paki' politics. see here:
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2010/08/22/bradford-‘anti-asianism’/
as for exact details Oik, it is hard to establish without a wee bit of forensic journalism etc.

Yes, one reason for the extreme right dropping anti semitism can probably be traced to the disappearance of jewish ghettos, like londons east end up until the 40's. Their perceived presence has changed and in their place have come the next wave of immigrants in the form of pakistani muslims who now concentrate, to an extent in the east end, amongst other places, and are very visible, thus easier to target as a scapegoat. Also being unable to deny the Holocaust was an obstacle for the more traditional nazi lot..

This however does not explain why small but influential zionist groups would now want to back racist groups in europe. I would presume that it was a case of stirring anti muslim sentiment in order to justify Israels' policy towards the Palestinians and in the process undermine pro palestine movements/concepts in europe while at the same time gaining supporters for Israel to stave off any ideas of boicots like what happened with Apartheid in south Africa.

Given that during the Bush Blair era Islamaphobia has been cranked up incessantly and systematically thru media propaganda in an attempt to demonise "the enemy" in a post cold war period and manipulate public opinion in favor of intervention in muslim countries, you would think that the dirty work had already been done.

It seems that the Bush agenda started the idealogical demonisation of muslims for its own ends and now certain zionist groups may have taken it upon themselves to widen the gammut.

I have no proof of this other than indications about Lake and Wilders and the above quotes in my previous post. I do however, see very clear indications of european non jewish journalists being bought to peddle Islamphobia while singing the praises of Israel and justifying that states' atrocities.

 

[BlackArab]

likewise, 'blacks' are alright cos of the afro-carribean community's contribution to popular culture and the assimilation of a lot of black guys into football firmslike birmingham zulus or man city's kool kats. what is left is what we call 'anti-paki' politics. see here:
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2010/08/22/bradford-‘anti-asianism’/
as for exact details Oik, it is hard to establish without a wee bit of forensic journalism etc.

There was a lot more to it then just the interracial firms when it comes to football, are you forgetting the players or the non-hooligan black supporters?

I would agree that black popular culture has made a large difference though, but the biggest difference, to put it bluntly would be the consumption of alcohol. This is a big influence in British social culture and the opportunity for breaking down barriers/getting to know someone is going to be a lot more difficult for people that avoid drinking and the culture that surrounds it.

ps it was the Cool Cats

 

[Pickman's model]

Yes, one reason for the extreme right dropping anti semitism can probably be traced to the disappearance of jewish ghettos, like londons east end up until the 40's.

which would explain why the far-right were so often explicitly anti-semitic until at least the 1990s? the disappearance of its prominence in recent years is more because they've found a new 'near enemy' than their main enemy having changed.

 

[Anudder Oik]

which would explain why the far-right were so often explicitly anti-semitic until at least the 1990s? the disappearance of its prominence in recent years is more because they've found a new 'near enemy' than their main enemy having changed.

Did you read the whole post?

 

[Pickman's model]

Did you read the whole post?

yes and i didn't see anything in there about the continuing anti-semitism of the far-right.

 

[treelover]

'Last year, I spent four months undercover on EDL demonstrations, witnessing its growing popularity. At each demonstration I attended, I was confronted by casual racism, a widespread hatred of Muslims and often the threat of violence. But I also met non-white people, gay rights activists, disaffected working class men and women, and middle-class intellectuals. I came to the conclusion that the EDL is not a simple rerun of previous far-right street groups. And as we watch the BNP implode, we should be clear that the end of one far-right political party is not the end of the far-right threat in the UK, or across Europe.'


Matthew Taylor(Guardian) on the EDL, Q&A today 12.00 PM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jul/27/english-defence-league-q-and-a

 

[Serotonin]

hello paroxetine/serotonin i've heard of these ppl, a para military movement, all serving and ex serving personnel, they started in 2002 when some militants from somewhere were going to petrol bomb a coffin with a dead soldier in it, from what i hear the government are very concerned about them, the police surrounded parliament with 800 armed police a few months back fearing a coup was taking place, they are routing out common purpose, demos, tavistock, fabians, very tight with a lot of political ppl and top brass. please don't mind the spelling errors, cheers pepe

Haha how many times a day do you spend googling your own name allan? You pathetic little fantasist.

 

[The39thStep]

which would explain why the far-right were so often explicitly anti-semitic until at least the 1990s? the disappearance of its prominence in recent years is more because they've found a new 'near enemy' than their main enemy having changed.

Or simply that the post war anti semitism was a dead end , as was simply overt anti black racism.We are now in a situation where some form of racial and cultural nationalism is pretty much the manistream content of the larger far right groups.

 

[Ranbay]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jul/27/english-defence-league-q-and-a?INTCMP=SRCH

English Defence League: Q&A with Matthew TaylorThe Guardian reporter will be online for a debate about the EDL and the politics surrounding it from midday Thursday (UK time)

 

[ViolentPanda]

The 23 effers did, in Spain, that started on 23 February 1981 and ended the next day on 24 February 1981 as a failure.

If you're honest, you'll admit that Spain and the UK aren't really comparable. They'd only had democracy for about 4-5 years when their coup attempt happened. Invading parliament only makes sense if you need the symbolism, otherwise it's a waste of time and resources.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Yes, one reason for the extreme right dropping anti semitism can probably be traced to the disappearance of jewish ghettos, like londons east end up until the 40's. Their perceived presence has changed and in their place have come the next wave of immigrants in the form of pakistani muslims who now concentrate, to an extent in the east end, amongst other places, and are very visible, thus easier to target as a scapegoat. Also being unable to deny the Holocaust was an obstacle for the more traditional nazi lot..

What a load of old horse-shit.

Sorry, but you haven't got a clue what you're talking about.

Jewish ghettos haven't "disappeared", they've evolved. Whereas when my great-gran came over, the majority of east-European Jews were piss-poor, and so lived in poor areas, nowadays they merely live in nicer communities. You still get us sticking together in little enclaves, though, just like any minority. We're still mostly in ghettos, it's just that we've had the bars of the cage gilded.

This however does not explain why small but influential zionist groups would now want to back racist groups in europe. I would presume that it was a case of stirring anti muslim sentiment in order to justify Israels' policy towards the Palestinians and in the process undermine pro palestine movements/concepts in europe while at the same time gaining supporters for Israel to stave off any ideas of boicots like what happened with Apartheid in south Africa.

You're looking at Zionism as if it's a "Jews only" or "Israelis only" endeavour. It's far from that. There are far more Christian Zionists in the west than there are Jewish and/or Israeli Zionists, and where Jewish and/or Israeli Zionists tend to be motivated by an at least partially secular vision, the Christian Zionists are motivated by/justify their actions through the Bible.
It's hardly a massive intellectual leap to make to presume that there's cross-fertilisation between generally right to hard-right Christian Zionists (who are in turn on very friendly terms with Israeli nationalist-Zionists) and racist and nationalist groups across the west when their interests coincide, and the Christian Zionist strain has quite a bit more power and influence than Israel has (bear in mind that while Israel has strategic value, strategies can change).

Given that during the Bush Blair era Islamaphobia has been cranked up incessantly and systematically thru media propaganda in an attempt to demonise "the enemy" in a post cold war period and manipulate public opinion in favor of intervention in muslim countries, you would think that the dirty work had already been done.

It seems that the Bush agenda started the idealogical demonisation of muslims for its own ends and now certain zionist groups may have taken it upon themselves to widen the gammut.

I have no proof of this other than indications about Lake and Wilders and the above quotes in my previous post. I do however, see very clear indications of european non jewish journalists being bought to peddle Islamphobia while singing the praises of Israel and justifying that states' atrocities.

But that's been the case for sixty years. It's nothing much to do with anything else. Prior to September 11th, it was "the Arab threat", now it's "the Islamist threat", different veneers on the same policy of promoting Israel's right to exist.

And why promote that? Because Israel is and was a political and physical beachhead into a resource-rich part of the world.

 

[audiotech]

If you're honest, you'll admit that Spain and the UK aren't really comparable.

I agree, but loons... I'll re-phrase that, Colonel Blimps/fantasists, whatever their nationality, usually are.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I agree, but loons... I'll re-phrase that, Colonel Blimps/fantasists, whatever their nationality, usually are.

I'll concede that point.

 

[Anudder Oik]

It's not a load of Horse... Jewish ghettos were much more "visible" and it was easier for say, the BUF, to stir up anti semitism on a local level. I think that there is a general rule that the newest poorest arrivals to britain are the ones who bear the brunt of racism. The more visible they are the worse they get it.

Would you call a jewish Neighbourhood a ghetto nowadays?

It pays better for fascist organizations to target easier more "Popular" targets.

The anti muslim sentiment being stoked up in Britain is finding ground at a street level because of the "visibility" of its victims and their perceived lack of integration. The perception of Jews in Britain has changed tremendously since the 40's.

Sure, anti semitism persisted within the NF up until the 90's but I rarely came across it on the street/at school when I was living in London, late 70's early 80's. Racism was, however, rife, and was directed at blacks and Pakistanis. They had a slogan "If you want a N for a neighbour, vote labour" That just wouldn't have galvanized support for them if had referred to Jews.

What the fuck is a christian zionist?

 

[butchersapron]

Then no-conservative people in the US who support Israel for their own christian rapturists ends. You must have spotted them over the last 20 years? Since gulf war 1 at least?

 

[audiotech]

Sure, anti semitism persisted within the NF up until the 90's but I rarely came across it on the street/at school when I was living in London, late 70's early 80's. Racism was, however, rife, and was directed at blacks and Pakistanis. They had a slogan "If you want a N for a neighbour, vote labour" That just wouldn't have galvanized support for them if had referred to Jews.

The slogan If You Want a Nigger for a Neighbour, Vote Labour was adopted by the conservative candidate, one Peter Griffiths, in Smethwick, Birmingham, in the '64 general election. Posters with that slogan were put up around the area. It is unclear as to who was responsible?

The NF slogan in the 70's/80's was Three Million Unemployed, Three Million Blacks.

 

[Anudder Oik]

Then no-conservative people in the US who support Israel for their own christian rapturists ends. You must have spotted them over the last 20 years? Since gulf war 1 at least?

I don't want to get bogged down in this but surely they are Christians who support zionists rather than Christian Zionists?

I would prefer to get bck to my question about who is financing the EDL or sponsoring the far right in europe?