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    Lazy Llama

Driving Standards

Something they do right in places like France and Germany; different speed limits in wet weather. Just reinforces in peoples' minds to drive differently in bad weather, something you all too often don't see in the UK.

Isn't that part of what smart motorways are about? There are elements of smart motorways which I'm not that keen on but the general idea of adapting speed limits to suit conditions (whether they be weather conditions or weight of traffic) is sound.
 
Isn't that part of what smart motorways are about? There are elements of smart motorways which I'm not that keen on but the general idea of adapting speed limits to suit conditions (whether they be weather conditions or weight of traffic) is sound.

Smart motorways are about adding an extra lane at the expense of the safety of the hard shoulder. Variable speed limits have been around since long before the smart motorway. But in other places it is a fixed thing:

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So it is burnt in to your consciousness that you adjust your speed to the conditions.
 
Smart motorways are about adding an extra lane at the expense of the safety of the hard shoulder. Variable speed limits have been around since long before the smart motorway. But in other places it is a fixed thing:

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I think they are a bit more than bringing the hard shoulder into use. They are about constantly managing flow of traffic in real time and adjusting speed limits accordingly so traffic flow is always optimum. Trying to avoid the shock waving that used to plague motorways by getting everyone to drive at roughly the same speed. The hard shoulder thing is part of that but not necessary for a motorway to be considered smart, I think some stretches of the M1 have been upgraded to smart but still have a constant hard shoulder.

My experience of them is that they have been pretty effective in that regard.

The sign in your picture is a good idea and cheap but would take ages for people to get used to in the UK. Variable speed limits enforceable with average speed cameras is much more 21st century.

Of course in general we are a bit hard on ourselves. UK motorways were the safest high speed roads in Europe even before the introduction of smart motorways. Whether that stays the same because of the hard shoulder thing remains to be seen.
 
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Variable speed limits to manage traffic flow have been on the M25 since the mid 90's, they do work well, but I have only ever seen them come on in heavy traffic and not for bad weather.
 
Variable speed limits to manage traffic flow have been on the M25 since the mid 90's, they do work well, but I have only ever seen them come on in heavy traffic and not for bad weather.

Yes but that was in quite a primitive way. It was very reactive and relied on humans monitoring intermittent cameras. It usually only kicked in when there had been an incident or when whoever was monitoring the cameras saw a traffic jam. They also quite frequently forgot to change the speed limit back to normal after the traffic had cleared hence the joy of matrix signs telling you to do 50mph when the road was clear.

This is all real time and mostly computer operated now. It aims to be proactive and prevent jams before they happen as much as is possible and weather conditions play a part in that. Getting rid of the constant accelerating than breaking hard which caused shockwave traffic jams is a positive i think even if that means we have to drive at 50mph a lot more. We'll still get to our destination quicker. That's the theory anyway.
 
Yes but that was in quite a primitive way. It was very reactive and relied on humans monitoring intermittent cameras. It usually only kicked in when there had been an incident or when whoever was monitoring the cameras saw a traffic jam. They also quite frequently forgot to change the speed limit back to normal after the traffic had cleared hence the joy of matrix signs telling you to do 50mph when the road was clear.

This is all real time and mostly computer operated now. It aims to be proactive and prevent jams before they happen as much as is possible and weather conditions play a part in that. Getting rid of the constant accelerating than breaking hard which caused shockwave traffic jams is a positive i think even if that means we have to drive at 50mph a lot more. We'll still get to our destination quicker. That's the theory anyway.

Dangerous, 17 minutes to spot a broken down car in a live lane: Are smart motorways dangerous? The safety issues around the highways explained

Doesn't bother me of course, sitting pretty three lanes away in the four rings lane...
 
Dangerous, 17 minutes to spot a broken down car in a live lane: Are smart motorways dangerous? The safety issues around the highways explained

Doesn't bother me of course, sitting pretty three lanes away in the four rings lane...

Are there any stats on smart motorways vs non-smart motorways? The m42 has been around for many, many years as it was the pilot (and anecdotally flows way better since than it did before), and the M6 section north of Birmingham also so I'd think we'd have some real world stats as to how much of a difference a full hard shoulder vs the live lane + refuge spaces actually makes.
 
Dream on. The message is getting through to drivers that it's 6 points and a minimum £200 fine just for having a phone in your hand now. You still see the occasional dick using one but it's pretty rare now.

Hard disagree. Perhaps it's another difference in London driving/enforcement but imo phone use is as common as it's ever been by drivers.
 
Are there any stats on smart motorways vs non-smart motorways? The m42 has been around for many, many years as it was the pilot (and anecdotally flows way better since than it did before), and the M6 section north of Birmingham also so I'd think we'd have some real world stats as to how much of a difference a full hard shoulder vs the live lane + refuge spaces actually makes.


38 dead in five years over a relatively tiny number of motorway miles. The AA will not attend broken down cars in lane one any more as they deem it too dangerous.

 
38 dead in five years over a relatively tiny number of motorway miles. The AA will not attend broken down cars in lane one any more as they deem it too dangerous.


Figure is meaningless, needs to be a comparative figure with non-smart networks per miles travelled.
article says
he figure of 38 deaths over five years on the smart motorway network is significant because it only makes up a small proportion of the total miles of road.

but that doesn't actually tell us what we need to know.
 
Figure is meaningless, needs to be a comparative figure with non-smart networks per miles travelled.
article says


but that doesn't actually tell us what we need to know.
Figure is meaningless, needs to be a comparative figure with non-smart networks per miles travelled.
article says


but that doesn't actually tell us what we need to know.


The AA will not attend broken down cars in lane one any more as they deem it too dangerous.

Tells me enough.
 
I know parliament has been sufficiently concerned about safety that they have asked the government several times to pause the smart motorway upgrades until more research is done. The concept of smart motorways appears to be sound for the general idea of active traffic management so its not really about the concept as such but more about whether bring the hard shoulder into general use is safe. You can have a smart motorway with a constant hard shoulder but you can't bring the hard shoulder into use without active traffic management.

Using the hard shoulder does feel dangerous to me. The idea that cars are more reliable now is all very well and good but they do still break down. I also think if you are going to make such big changes there needs to be a driver education program that goes with it. Then again there isn't one for any aspects of motorways which is still a bit mad.
 
Saw a cyclist looking at his phone the other night, one hand steering the bike, wobbling all over the place.

:(

I see an awful lot of delivery scooter riders checking their phone while on the move. All of all the modes of transport to do so, a fucking motorised bike it's arguably the worst by some margin.
 
Variable speed limits to manage traffic flow have been on the M25 since the mid 90's, they do work well, but I have only ever seen them come on in heavy traffic and not for bad weather.

They were using the ones near Sheffield to manage air pollution by reducing the limit when weather conditions and traffic volumes made this a potential problem.

I find them pretty good in general, getting round Birmingham on the 42 seems a lot better. Also makes things like changing lane far easier as traffic is generally all moving at around the same speed.
 
The majority of drivers do break the speed limit. Try travelling at 70 on a motorway...only lorries will go slower.
Virtually no one obeys the 20 limits in my neck of the woods, even on side roads, where its more important to obey them.

20mph limits are the worst - usually in semi- rural villages from my experience with restricted speed zone flashing LED signs.
 
I see an awful lot of delivery scooter riders checking their phone while on the move. All of all the modes of transport to do so, a fucking motorised bike it's arguably the worst by some margin.
They'll (mostly) be checking their work. Blame the apps that have replaced restaurants' in-house delivery drivers and lazy fuckers who want cheap food brought to their door.
 
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