articul8
Dishonest sociopath
why are they seconding staff to work for No? Why are the Taxpayers Alliance running their campaign? Why is not a single Tory MP advocating a yes vote? They know it will hurt them.
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why are they seconding staff to work for No? Why are the Taxpayers Alliance running their campaign? Why is not a single Tory MP advocating a yes vote? They know it will hurt them.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Because their traditional supporters don't support it. Easy.
articul8
Dishonest sociopath
No it doesn't see John Curtice in today's Indie - only post-90 election that would have led to a hung parliament with AV was....2010 - when FPTP produced that anyway.
articul8
Dishonest sociopath
And they put their true party interests aside to appease their activists? Yes, right, that's how the coalition works....
Common market and i voted to come out.But that was a long time ago
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
They needed a win. That was the whole point. The last thing they can sell.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
tbh I don't think they will be hurt by it. Part of the bill is a gerrymandering down to 500 seats. I haven't seen the details, but it would surprise me if the gerrymandering hadn't been done to favour the tories. All govts forever have always gerrymandered in their favour whenever the opportunity has arisen.
But you keep telling us that AV will change the way people vote.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I didn't say that it was in their interest - i said the impact would be so minimal they couldn't a fuck. They can't lose. Shocking level of dishonesty there. Bad show.
articul8
Dishonest sociopath
It might, but the bottom line is that AV - for good or ill - is a majoritarian system. Which means it isn't predisposed to throwing up hung parliaments. But the PR supporters among you need to accept that coalition government is more likely as a consequence. You can't have it every way
Andrew Hertford
Chocolate Jesus
Whether the tories like it or not isn't really the main issue, but the vast majority of them don't want a yes because they know they won't be able to rely on big fat majorities ever again. Only fptp gave them that.
articul8
Dishonest sociopath
except they obviously CAN give a fuck..the Tory press, Tory MPs and Tory donors are as one on it
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I do agree with this. I don't think the Tories really give a shit about this vote. But I don't think it is obvious that damaging the libdems only - ie and not the tories - damages the tory govt. I don' think it's obvious that it does.
It's not coalition people dislike, it's the cunting Lib Dems holding the balance of power for the foreseeable. Do people pay you for this?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
How not? What's wrong with my scenario for example?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I'm sure last year that the tories desperately wanted to win the election outright. Now I'm sure they're rather chuffed with how things have turned out. Sacrificing three minor cabinet posts with virtually no policy making responsibility at all between them was a small price to pay for neutralising half the opposition.
What I'm saying is, I think, 'who give a fuck about the libdems?'
What I'm saying is, I think, 'who give a fuck about the libdems?'
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
It means exactly that and that's why you're paid to argue for it.
articul8
Dishonest sociopath
This ^
articul8
Dishonest sociopath
what means what?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Yeah, without giving a fuck.
is articul8 paid to lobby urban?
looks like they could spend the funds better elsewhere tbh.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
That the people who pay you to argue for AV want to and have long argued for a Lib-dem/lab taking of the 'centre ground' for those two parties alone. And AV is a route towards that.
Call me a liar. I dare you.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
That would be better than the almighty fucking fuck up we have today. Tolday's govt is virtually the worst of all possible worlds - the most extreme right-wing govt since universal suffrage was introduced.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
It's about the next govt - and if you think the people you've just accurately described are after a recreation of the past - then you're wrong. You're not voting on the past. You're voting for the people you've just outlined as scum to be the people who choose which party governs forever.
If these AV supporters really knew what was going on and gave a fuck about other people, they'd be putting their energies into stopping the Tories, blue and yellow, from stripping the state to its bones and squeezing every fucking penny from the workers, the sick and the elderly as they can. This pathetic little reform is a fucking distraction from the wholesale evisceration of society that's being planned.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
We have a winner.
What does it matter what system we use to elect people when the second they get in they throw all their pre-election promises out the window and set about doing whatever the people who funded their campaign tell them to? Why even bother having elections if there is nothing requiring politicians to adhere to their mandate? Whatever the motivations of the two sides to this campaign really are all we're going to hear is an endless stream of lies from all concerned until the actual issue is lost in the fog of war. Just like in a general election. I don't vote in those either.
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