discokermit
Well-Known Member
this is how the red army faction got started.
Do we support Insulate Britain?
- Thread starter Serene
- Start date
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
And we're not even allowed sports cars now.
Serene
Slightly disgruntled
Yes I agree and to reiterrate what I said, I personally agree with them. There are some Scientists who disagree. It is also a fact that some Scientists think that it is because of the Earths periodical. It is a fact that some scientists disagree, I personally think they are incorrect, but there are some Scientists who think it is caused by the Earths periodical.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
It's obvious to me we have a climate emergency. For some people its too much to deal with so just ignore it, not an unusual human response in a crisis as see also Covid. Some people whether consciously or sub-consciously are doing a mental calculation that they will probably be dead by the time the shit really hits the fan. Weirdly these people often have kids but that's another matter.
I think having a more targeted approach in itself is a decent approach. The problem is so vast and complicated that having a single demand which you put all your focus into I'm not against at all.
I'm fortunate to live in a modern well insulated home and it's ace, it really is. Our bills (before the latest chaos) have been hovering around £50 per month for years (gas & electric). We've not got the heating on yet, generally it doesn't go on until late November. Even when it does go on its only for a couple of hours in the morning and a couple in the evening. We never need the heating on at night,, in fact we don't even have a winter duvet, we are fine with a light spring / autumn one.
As I write this I am working from home with all our windows open.
The problems I have with Insulate Britain is that scale and complexity of insulating our old housing stock is mind blowing and the implications are far reaching. I do think there is a 'law of unintended consequences' thing going on here as well and having read their website they seem pretty open about lacking expertise in the area.
I also think their current tactics whilst brave are more likely to alienate then win people to the cause. Targeting government, business and the people who are the ones who have the power to bring about change would perhaps be more effective.
In short, yes I think they're right but sadly I don't think they are going to achieve anything.
I think having a more targeted approach in itself is a decent approach. The problem is so vast and complicated that having a single demand which you put all your focus into I'm not against at all.
I'm fortunate to live in a modern well insulated home and it's ace, it really is. Our bills (before the latest chaos) have been hovering around £50 per month for years (gas & electric). We've not got the heating on yet, generally it doesn't go on until late November. Even when it does go on its only for a couple of hours in the morning and a couple in the evening. We never need the heating on at night,, in fact we don't even have a winter duvet, we are fine with a light spring / autumn one.
As I write this I am working from home with all our windows open.
The problems I have with Insulate Britain is that scale and complexity of insulating our old housing stock is mind blowing and the implications are far reaching. I do think there is a 'law of unintended consequences' thing going on here as well and having read their website they seem pretty open about lacking expertise in the area.
I also think their current tactics whilst brave are more likely to alienate then win people to the cause. Targeting government, business and the people who are the ones who have the power to bring about change would perhaps be more effective.
In short, yes I think they're right but sadly I don't think they are going to achieve anything.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Yeah. I do agree with you, but tbqh if they went all Baader-Meinhof on oil execs and the like I wouldn't shed any tears.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
...though such a campaign wouldn't be sustainable, just as Insulate Britain's isn't.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Not far enough.
discokermit
Well-Known Member
what makes me laugh is that despite their stupid backpacks providing a handy way for people to drag them out of the way, they are so middle class they can't abandon them.
i wonder how many of them are landlords.
i wonder how many of them are landlords.
I would suggest that there has not been significant change or progress in reducing carbon emissions. And that there won’t be until there is an economic driver towards doing so.
Maybe you are right and changing public opinion will be part of that economic driver, and that disruptive protest changes opinion. I remain unconvinced but it’s possible. Is this what you think? Maybe I’m too cynical.
I can’t tell if you’re being serious.
Serene
Slightly disgruntled
That reminds me of one of the Poems in Les Fleurs du Mal by Charles Baudelaire. Le Soleil.
Le Soleil (The Sun) by Charles Baudelaire
Along the old street on whose cottages are hung
The slatted shutters which hide secret lecheries,
When the cruel sun strikes with increased blows
The city, the country, the roofs, and the wheat fields,
Brainaddict
slight system overdrive
I've been a bit torn on this. I'm not botherd about the disruption per se and have been on disruptive protests, but it does matter somewhat what other people think of you. Of course you're not trying to win over die-hard Tories or anything, but there are a lot of people floating in the middle. Ideally when working on an issue where broad consensus on change is one of the goals, you want to do actions that the passers-by want to join in.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
All things that I've personal experience of seeing change caused by disruptive protests hitting the 'bottom line' of those making the decisions.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
yeh you want actions which people are ready to replicate. and i daresay that blocking motorways is a rather niche pastime
bimble
floofy
Thing is that their stated goal is exactly to 'win over die hard tories', they want to force government to do stuff not individuals.
Their website says the goal is 'That the UK government immediately promises to fully fund and take responsibility for the insulation of all social housing in Britain by 2025' .
That's a good goal. But their actions look like awareness raising, which imo is not any more what's needed, as people are aware. I am confused by it all and i ticked i dont know.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
I think this is a really important criticism.
Serge Forward
Just enjoyin' my coffee.
Or smash up a bus shelter.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
yeh freeze them and wrap them in sustainable insulation - perhaps wool-based - to help preserve them on their way to the pengo factory in grytviken
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
For the nerds - this whole issue of class composition of green movements is identical to the stuff Midnight Notes was going on about with nuclear power in the late 1970s.
libcom.org
libcom.org
What I like about them is their generosity and good humour I think. A recognition that perfect movements do not spring into the world from nowhere. That having something to criticise, that people can learn from, is better than having nothing.
Midnight Notes vol 01 #01 (1979) – Strange Victories
First issue of the autonomist journal Midnight Notes. From http://www.midnightnotes.org/mnpublic.html
Midnight Notes vol 01 #02 – No Future Notes: the Work/Energy Crisis & The Anti-Nuclear Movement
Second issue of the autonomist Midnight Notes journal.
What I like about them is their generosity and good humour I think. A recognition that perfect movements do not spring into the world from nowhere. That having something to criticise, that people can learn from, is better than having nothing.
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
Why are you so fixated on the tiny minority of scientists who don't think the current warming is anthropogenic? There's going to be a tiny minority of idiots in every profession, and scientists are no exception.
Flavour
hang the bankers
You can't win with some people -- the old "you won't win any friends with that kind of protest" mob which many of you now belong to. All the victories the working class won were won through disruptive protest. Someone mentioned women's suffrage. I bet there were a lot of men at the time saying "Well yes of course in principle I think women should be allowed to vote, but these protests, well, it's all a bit too much isn't it? Almost turns one away from the idea!"
When XR blocked public transport they were rightly decried for targeting the very thing that they shouldn't. Now Insulate Britain are blocking roads -- i.e. private transport, not public, and we get a bunch of fucking moaning about inconveniencing "normal people".
Fuck's sake
When XR blocked public transport they were rightly decried for targeting the very thing that they shouldn't. Now Insulate Britain are blocking roads -- i.e. private transport, not public, and we get a bunch of fucking moaning about inconveniencing "normal people".
Fuck's sake
Serene
Slightly disgruntled
Conversely, in History the majority of Scientists have agreed on one thing and a minority on another, and it turned out that the minority were correct. One always has to be objective where one can be. In truth most say it is and some say it isnt.. Thats a fact.
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