Discussion: UK anti-vaxx 'freedom' morons, protests and QAnon idiots

[SheilaNaGig]

Anabolic Steroids or the corticosteroid stuff though ????

Wait! You mean the corticosteroids, don’t you yiou! Because cortico sounds a bit like cortex, and this is messing with their heads... right? Head... mind.... cortex... right?. I’m only JOIN THE DOTS here...!

 

[8ball]

Anabolic Steroids or the corticosteroid stuff though ????

Wait! You mean the corticosteroids, don’t you yiou! Because cortico sounds a bit like cortex, and this is messing with their heads... right? Head... mind.... cortex... right?. I’m only JOIN THE DOTS here...!

<logs onto 8kun to blow some minds with this stunning news...>

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Would agree, though in different places it picks up other influences and trends quite happily.

Here the paedogeddon side is more dominant. I don't think it will ever reach anything near the scale it has in the US because of that, though - it's lost a big chunk of its basic appeal.

 

[frogwoman]

Here the paedogeddon side is more dominant. I don't think it will ever reach anything near the scale it has in the US because of that, though - it's lost a big chunk of its basic appeal.

And the idea of trump going off to save trafficked kids is less plausible and culturally relevant

 

[8ball]

Here the paedogeddon side is more dominant. I don't think it will ever reach anything near the scale it has in the US because of that, though - it's lost a big chunk of its basic appeal.

In Australia it centres very much around the virus (compared to the failed Trumpist fantasies in the USA), as well as unease about China (ongoing local concern), and is also facilitated by a pre-existing strong anti-vaxxer movement.

I take your point about how it is currently centred here, though I wouldn't underestimate its propensity to mutate as things develop.

 

[frogwoman]

In Australia it centres very much around the virus (compared to the failed Trumpist fantasies in the USA), as well as unease about China (ongoing local concern), and is also facilitated by a pre-existing strong anti-vaxxer movement.

I take your point about how it is currently centred here, though I wouldn't underestimate its propensity to mutate as things develop.

About the virus being fake you mean?

 

[8ball]

About the virus being fake you mean?

I’m sure there is a thread of that, but I was reading about the “virus as bioweapon created by the Chinese” version.

 

[frogwoman]

I had a slight argument with a girl I was seeing a while back who isn't in any way a conspiracy theorist but she was convinced there was evidence the virus came from a Chinese lab, possibly deliberately.

 

[8ball]

I had an argument with a girl I was seeing a while back who isn't in any way a conspiracy theorist but she was convinced there was evidence the virus came from a Chinese lab, possibly deliberately.

The proximity of that virology lab to the area it emerged is certainly something that has also been noted by non-conspiracy types.
I haven't looked up the most up to date evidence regarding the origin of the virus tbf, but even in those rarified quarters the suspicions seem to relate to an accidental release as opposed to the 'bioweapon' nonsense.

 

[frogwoman]

It's not impossible it was released accidentally (there was a SARS outbreak in 2005 when someone got infected in a lab) but unlikely imo.

 

[8ball]

It's not impossible it was released accidentally (there was a SARS outbreak in 2005 when someone got infected in a lab) but unlikely imo.

There have been arguments about particular sequences in the virus genome, some of which are the same as you see in cases of manipulation, but these sequences also occur naturally. I haven't looked deeply into it and it's well out of the range of the genetics I used to study back in the day.

I haven't seen anything on this since early October, which seemed to refute the idea. Nothing even a little bit credible supporting the idea since late July. I think it's most likely a natural source that we will never fully pin down, but opinions are like arseholes etc...

 

[William of Walworth]

Those posts a bit further upthread from SheilaNaGig and from others responding to her, have been fascinating and full of great insights

Respect to trying your best to see where they're coming from and offer alternative perspectives

But!!

I seriously doubt that I'd ever be patient enough to be so kind with the rope ladder! -- online, or in real life!

For the same reason that it's been a long time since I did any left-inclined political canvassing , I've been determined to avoid as much as I can arguing directly with conspiranutter irrationalists

I'd be the very worst person of anyone to persuade these twazzocks about the errors of their 'thinking' -- ranting and pisstaking about their idiocy, with anti-loon likemindeds on here or in the pub, is much easier, and vastly more fun

 

[8ball]

Those posts a bit further upthread from SheilaNaGig and from others responding to her, have been fascinating and full of great insights

Respect to trying your best to see where they're coming from and offer alternative perspectives

But!!

I seriously doubt that I'd ever be patient enough to be so kind with the rope ladder! -- online, or in real life!

For the same reason that it's been a long time since I did any left-inclined political canvassing , I've been determined to avoid as much as I can arguing directly with conspiranutter irrationalists

I'd be the very worst person of anyone to persuade these twazzocks about the errors of their 'thinking' -- ranting and pisstaking about their idiocy, with anti-loon likemindeds on here or in the pub, is much easier, and vastly more fun

Certainly easier and more fun.

That said, I'm a bit wary of some posters who bang the drum for compulsion when all they have done is call someone a cunt on a platform they won't see.

 

[William of Walworth]

Certainly easier and more fun.

That said, I'm a bit wary of some posters who bang the drum for compulsion when all they have done is call someone a cunt on a platform they won't see.

Dissing loons and rubbishing anti-vaccination conspiranoids doesn't necessarily lead to advocating compulsion on vaccination though.

Personally, I'd take a lot of persuading that compulsion is the way to go-- big risk of counterproductivity to that approach

 

[8ball]

Dissing loons and rubbishing anti-cavvination consoiranoids doesn't necessarily lead to advocating compuslion on vaccination though.

Personally, I'd take a lot of persuading that compulsion is the way to go-- big risk of counterproductivity to that approach

'Compulsion' in reality would take the form of certain services being denied to unvaccinated individuals but I can't see 'the optics'* necesarily working out great there either.

* - ugh! bit sick in mouth..

 

[frogwoman]

Is anyone talking about compulsion here though, unless I've missed something? I'm not even sure the smallpox vaccine was mandatory? It will be a year or so before the vaccine is available to the entire population in any case

 

[8ball]

Is anyone talking about compulsion here though, unless I've missed something? I'm not even sure the smallpox vaccine was mandatory? It will be a year or so before the vaccine is available to the entire population in any case

Yeah, I think in terms of the general population the queue will have to go down a lot before it gets to otherwise healthy people who whine about not wanting it.
We have recently seen reports about anti-vaxxer healthcare workers, though. I think that will be one of the early fault lines.

 

[frogwoman]

Yeah, I think in terms of the general population the queue will have to go down a lot before it gets to otherwise healthy people who whine about not wanting it.
We have recently seen reports about anti-vaxxer healthcare workers, though. I think that will be one of the early fault lines.

Yeah, people are talking about compulsion (either for or against) as if it's a thing that it's a) about to happen imminently and b) enforceable in current circumstances and it's just not.

 

[8ball]

Yeah, people are talking about compulsion (either for or against) as if it's a thing that it's a) about to happen imminently and b) enforceable in current circumstances and it's just not.

Most of the vaccine moans I've heard are from friends and family saying it will probably be ages til it comes round to their turn.

 

[William of Walworth]

Is anyone talking about compulsion here though, unless I've missed something? I'm not even sure the smallpox vaccine was mandatory? It will be a year or so before the vaccine is available to the entire population in any case

While that's almost certainly true, there is surely a fair chance (subject to relevant approvals, safety certification, etc.) that in the UK, one or more vaccines will reach a good proportion a lot sooner

There are plenty of people who are older, have certain designated underlying conditions, etc.
I wouldn't be all that surprised --now! -- if those who get the flu vaccine as standard end up getting a Covid vaccine well earlier than a year away ...

</wearing vaccine-optimist's hat >

 

[FridgeMagnet]

And the idea of trump going off to save trafficked kids is less plausible and culturally relevant

"Now, sure, satanic paedophiles secretly rule the world, but I draw the line at believing Trump is going to fix it - I'm not crazy ffs"

 

[frogwoman]

This stuff is grim though. I saw a fb thread where someone's dad had died of covid and the comments were like 'that's really sad but how do you know he didnt die with covid and not of covid? How old was he, did he have any health problems? I'm very sorry but that doesn't mean you should tell me to wear a mask!' Really nasty, and I'm sure not all of them would have been 'conspiracy theorists' either tbh

 

[SheilaNaGig]

People can very defensive of their beliefs, especially if those beliefs are based on sand. They need to dig in deeper whenever they encounter a threat.

 

[SheilaNaGig]

Here the paedogeddon side is more dominant. I don't think it will ever reach anything near the scale it has in the US because of that, though - it's lost a big chunk of its basic appeal.

It’s really interesting to see the way this shit is working elsewhere in the world. It’s got nil traction in some places, while in others it’s heavy with the local concerns (e.g. the Australian version has the “China makes fake virus” stuff turned up much higher).

 

[Cloo]

I don't get how people see lockdowns as part of a conspiracy. It doesn't serve the government anything to lock everyone down. It's not as though we were on the verge of a national revolution that would have overthrown the government before this kicked off (though fuck knows, we should have been), nor did that even look like even a vague possibility. And most of the sort of people complaining it's a conspiracy are not even the kind of people who disagree with the government.

There's a vast difference between 'Stay at home to break the transmission of a disease' and 'Inform us if you hear anyone criticise the government' - agreeing to do the former hardly means a person will somehow be 'primed' to agree to the latter, which seems to be the implication of the 'It's about complete control!!!' crowd. I mean, people bring up people 'informing' on neighbours breaking lockdown but TBH I think hardly anyone does or is interested in doing so. Most people would not bother to say anything about one person popping round to another's especially as there may be some good reason. But they'd also be perfectly in their rights to shop some twats having a massive party not because that 'helps the government' that obeying lockdown has somehow made them slavishly devoted to, but because it's a responsible thing to do in the middle of a pandemic.

 

[SheilaNaGig]

It’s allowing the AI drones and cameras a chance to learn without the usual crowds, which can confuse it.

 

[SheilaNaGig]

Standing 6 feet apart is the same thing: gives the AI a chance to look at our faces and recognise us without the interference caused by too many people standing together.

No one has yet explained to me how wearing a mask fits with this theory though.

 

[SheilaNaGig]

The thing is, there’s a grain of truth here, inasmuch as there is now discussion about using AI to ensure social distancing. Just enough to strengthen the conspiracy.

Machine learning could check if you’re social distancing properly at work

Andrew Ng’s startup Landing AI has created a new workplace monitoring tool that issues an alert when anyone is less than the desired distance from a colleague. Six feet apart: On Thursday, the startup released a blog post with a new demo video showing off a new social distancing detector. On the...

www.technologyreview.com

Facial Recognition Technology: the answer to social distancing or discriminatory? - Cloisters - Barristers Chambers

Covid-19: Is Facial Recognition Technology in the workspace, the answer to social distancing or discriminatory?…

www.cloisters.com

Once again, for the avoidance of doubt, I do not believe this shit.

 

[frogwoman]

The government are tracking our phones, credit card purchases and Facebook data etc anyway ffs. Privacy has been dead for years, you don't need to invent a pandemic.

 

[frogwoman]

And masks don't help with facial recognition, some of the companies involved in this have actually complained about it.