Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

CWI Split?

xenon said:
Ah a good old P&P thread about some irrelevant group no one normal has ever heard of having an impenetrably dull ideological schism. I was pretty sure that's what I'd get when opening this thread. Glad not to be disappointed.
Click to expand...

There used to be loads more threads like this years ago but they are now a forgotten art from. It does feel like a glimpse into the past like Beamish.
 
DownwardDog said:
There used to be loads more threads like this years ago but they are now a forgotten art from. It does feel like a glimpse into the past like Beamish.
Click to expand...
This is a great idea. People could set up herritige trot groups a bit like narrow gauge railways. Retired old blokes could dress up at weekends and try to bother people coming out of the pub by flogging Millitants from 1984...
 
A380 said:
This is a great idea. People could set up herritige trot groups a bit like narrow gauge railways. Retired old blokes could dress up at weekends and try to bother people coming out of the pub by flogging Millitants from 1984...
Click to expand...

Pah, latecomer.

I have been going into pubs, being tedious and avoided by women for many years - just as I did while (for 3 weeks - count them) in the Student Socialist Workers Society.

Now that my friend is a commitment to conserving our heritage.
 
Idris2002 said:
Paywalled. Why must you taunt me so?
Click to expand...

The inner workings of the Socialist Party are not usually on display for all to see.

Its TDs – Paul Murphy, Ruth Coppinger and Mick Barry – are the most cogent left wing voices in the Dáil.

Also operating under the Solidarity (formerly Anti-Austerity Alliance) banner, they have led debates on issues such as abortion and water charges.

In our view a tendency has also developed of some leading Irish comrades seeing all struggles through the prism of the women’s movement, rather than seeing how it interconnects with other struggles
Documents recently circulated within the party, however, illustrate how their movement has been criticised by international comrades for an excessive focus on abortion and women’s rights issues.

A collection of documents, including internal policy papers and international policy papers totalling 66 pages, have been seen by The Irish Times, and also reveal serious differences between leading figures on domestic political strategy.

Mr Murphy, Ms Coppinger and Mr Barry did not return repeated requests for comment yesterday.

A number of party councillors also declined to comment, with one saying he had been asked not to speak to The Irish Times. Former party TD Joe Higgins, also named in the documents, did not return calls.

Parent organisation differences
The documents show how differences emerged with the International Section (IS) of the Committee for a Workers International (CWI), the parent organisation of the Socialist Party.

Concerns were raised with Irish members last autumn on “struggles relating to women’s oppression”.

The differences, in fact, pre-date last year’s referendum to repeal the Eighth Amendment.

British activists felt the AAA was not forceful enough in arguing during the 2016 general election for “public ownership of the main sectors of the economy”.

This generation of petit-bourgeois feminists put very little focus on winning material gains for women concentrating overwhelmingly on individuals’ experience of sexism
The sharpest exchanges, however, came over the importance of the abortion referendum.

“It is our duty, as the elected leadership of the CWI, to raise our concerns in order to strengthen the work of the whole international,” the International Section of the CWI said in a paper called Women’s Oppression and Identity Politics – Our Approach in Ireland and Internationally.

“We think the comrades could be in danger of overstating the importance of the victory on abortion rights. In our view a tendency has also developed of some leading Irish comrades seeing all struggles through the prism of the women’s movement, rather than seeing how it interconnects with other struggles.”

It also questioned the future of the pro-choice group linked to the Socialist Party, Reproductive rights against Oppression, Sexism and Austerity (Rosa).

For the IS, the campaign against water charges is held up as a better example of “how united working-class struggle can win, and crucially our role in leading it”.

Role in Ireland
However, the role taken by those in Ireland in leading campaigns to increase awareness around abortion pills in the years before the referendum is praised.

“Clearly, the militant and campaigning stance taken by the comrades – for which they were attacked by a layer of bourgeois and petit-bourgeois feminists – was an important positive factor.”

There is some criticism of Ms Coppinger for comments made at an “England and Wales Socialism 2014 event”. Ms Coppinger is noted as saying: “Most young women wouldn’t have seen unions doing much for women. I thought a lot of the contributions were from middle-age women and were economic.”

The IS responded by saying the event in question “had a particular trade union focus that had not been the case in many other years”.

“However, in our view Ruth’s comments also reveal a misunderstanding about the necessity of us explaining how economic and social change can be won, and the role of the organised working class in achieving that, as well as an underestimation of the importance of economic issues for working-class women, including young women.

“This generation of petit-bourgeois feminists put very little focus on winning material gains for women concentrating overwhelmingly on individuals’ experience of sexism. In that sense their ideas are a retreat from at least some of the feminist struggles of the 1970s.”

The Irish National Executive Committee (NEC) sent its own document in response. “From the NEC in Ireland, with all NEC comrades, bar Paul M voting for the document,” it notes, and argues: “The IS document could give the impression that the Irish section is soft on, and friendly with the forces of petitbourgeois feminism.

“The IS document says we are in danger of overstating the abortion rights victory. Unfortunately, the IS are understating it.”

The response to the Belfast rape trial last year of rugby players Paddy Jackson and Stuart Olding (who were both acquitted of rape charges) is also a flashpoint between the IS and Ireland.

The Irish NEC says: “In the context of the Belfast rape trial and presumably in reaction to the ‘I believe her’ slogan that emerged from below, the IS document cautions, ‘we have to be careful not to go along with the conclusion of many petit-bourgeois feminists that every accusation of sexual assault made by a woman against a man has to be accepted. The IS are intimating that we just follow petit-bourgeois feminists. This is inaccurate to say the least. The facts are that when we called the demonstration North and South regarding this trial, we purposely called it under the general title/slogan of ‘Stand with Her & All Survivors’.

“The key point is that if we were overly legalistic or cautious in our approach, we would not have taken the initiatives and these important developments and potential would have passed us by.”
Click to expand...

I suppose the question of who is leaking this stuff and why has to be raised. Narked comrade or SF mole or what.
 
copliker said:

I suppose the question of who is leaking this stuff and why has to be raised. Narked comrade or SF mole or what.
Click to expand...
Narked comrades, plural, I'd say. Given that the SP are players, even if only in a small way, and the rest of the CWI is not in any way, I'd say the SP are growing increasingly weary of taking orders from the mothership.

And the more they become players in Irish politics, the more Oirish they'll become. Expect to see Paul Murphy bopping around in a Leprechaun suit sometime soon.

I jest of course, but I did once see SP election posters on the Shankill road where the shade of red they'd used was very, very close to being orange. You can start off doing that sort of thing as a cynical ploy, but eventually the face will grow to fit the mask (fwiw it's worth, I did vote for them in those local elections).
 
Well their position on the national question as quite clearly laid out in the leaked IB, shows, to quote father ted, they look red from a distance, but they're actually really really really really really dark orange!
 
Though there is, by someone who claims not to be an SP member. . .



Relevant to the "whose leaking this" because even if narked with the mothership they might be, I don't see any way how that would lead them to help the IT write a hit piece. . .

Which leaves who? Special branch?
 
Could be SPecial Branch. Could be some CPI youth influenced by the memes of Red London like groups. Either way it looks like the IT has once again followed the guardians lead and doing some left exposing.
 
Idris2002 said:
Narked comrades, plural, I'd say. Given that the SP are players, even if only in a small way, and the rest of the CWI is not in any way, I'd say the SP are growing increasingly weary of taking orders from the mothership.

And the more they become players in Irish politics, the more Oirish they'll become. Expect to see Paul Murphy bopping around in a Leprechaun suit sometime soon.

I jest of course, but I did once see SP election posters on the Shankill road where the shade of red they'd used was very, very close to being orange. You can start off doing that sort of thing as a cynical ploy, but eventually the face will grow to fit the mask (fwiw it's worth, I did vote for them in those local elections).
Click to expand...
That's pretty much how I see it too (first para anyway)
 
Local elections must becoming up soon. Explains the IT going overboard with 3 articles in a day.
 
They seem to have been encouraged to leave the CWI as well from my reading. The US group are anti-taafe as well aren't they?
 
One of the saddest things, ie ffs same old faces etc, I read was that the leading members are the same as when I was last a member in 2001 and some are the same as when I joined in 1987. Indeed Hannah Sell was moving to London in 1988 to go onto the Labour Party NEC as the LPYS rep, Tony Saunois was a leading International CWI member as were Clare Doyle, Bob Labi and Taaffe. Clive Heemskerk was the old MIR/Socailism Today editor. Phillip Stott has been full time for decades and when Alan McCombes left Phil took his place and is now on the IEC. Others mentioned were leading FTers in England and Sascha was a leading full timer back then. It seems all a tad 'samey'....

So, given on the IS Taaffe and Co are in a minority, who will keep the CWI name? Who will leave citing 'political degeneration'. Just what is 'petty-bourgeois Mandelism'? Answers on a pinhead please.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

brogdale
Labour Party split watch
2
Replies
34
Views
2K
wheelie_bin
W
camouflage
  • Poll
Labour Party split: Crap/Not Crap?
Replies
20
Views
1K
DaveCinzano
DaveCinzano
L
Interesting piece about the SDP split
2 3 4
Replies
90
Views
4K
ViolentPanda
ViolentPanda
emanymton
If the Labour Party was to split would you be more likely to join?
2
Replies
54
Views
3K
skyscraper101
skyscraper101
W
Splitters - Giving anti-Corbyn MPs a name
2 3 4 5
Replies
125
Views
6K
billy_bob
billy_bob
Back
Top Bottom