Criminalising Pregnant Mothers who Drink

[Citizen66]

'Thank fuck I didn't have a kid with that dickhead. I went on and had a kid with this good person and have the family I want.'

A kid with a dickhead produces a dickhead kid? Just, wow.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

A kid with a dickhead produces a dickhead kid? Just, wow.

Ah, now you're twisting the words. I said 'have the family I want', not 'have the children I want'. Family, as in partner and kids and life.

A kid with a dickhead means you're stuck with that dickhead as the father of your kid for life.

 

[Citizen66]

Well, I guess people were taking you to task for saying 1. That which demonstrably isn't true
and 2. which is highly debatable. You know, sometimes women want a choice full stop.
So if you can't be arsed arguing maybe you need to butt out of this discussion entirely and maybe you can reflect on why you wanted to engage in it in the first place.

I wasn't meaning to nest my argument in absolutist terms, even if it looked that way.

 

[toggle]

Such as?

i don't want kids
i don't want kids with him
i don't want kids until i've done (insert fun stuff here)
not doing this until i'm older
concentrating on my education/career first. not just an economic decision.

 

[Citizen66]

Ah, now you're twisting the words. I said 'have the family I want', not 'have the children I want'. Family, as in partner and kids and life.

A kid with a dickhead means you're stuck with that dickhead as the father of your kid for life.

Stuck with?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Both of those are real examples of women I know, btw. Not made-up hypotheticals.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Stuck with?

Yes. He's the father. so you're stuck with that. Come on.

 

[Citizen66]

i don't want kids
i don't want kids with him
i don't want kids until i've done (insert fun stuff here)
not doing this until i'm older
concentrating on my education/career first. not just an economic decision.

And none of those things relate to what I was aying about society.

 

[toggle]

And none of those things relate to what I was aying about society.

no they don't. and that's the point.

while society's attitudes may influence a decision, there's personal factors as well.

 

[Citizen66]

Yes. He's the father. so you're stuck with that. Come on.

Stuck in terms of what? It's confusing. You're not obliged to maintain contact if you don't want.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Stuck in terms of what? It's confusing. You're not obliged to maintain contact if you don't want.

'I told your dad to fuck off, even though he didn't want to. He's been trying to contact you, but I binned the letters.'

Oh yeah, no problems there. Your kids will understand.

 

[bluescreen]

You don't understand, lbj. Citizen66 is arguing about PRINCIPLES. This requires a clear head unclouded by details like sordid personal histories. (Not saying it's gender biased or anything.)

 

[Citizen66]

'I told your dad to fuck off, even though he didn't want to. He's been trying to contact you, but I binned the letters.'

Oh yeah, no problems there. Your kids will understand.

So it is connected to society or not then?

 

[Citizen66]

You don't understand, lbj. Citizen66 is arguing about PRINCIPLES. This requires a clear head unclouded by details like sordid personal histories. (Not saying it's gender biased or anything.)

Fuck off.

 

[bluescreen]

Citizen66, are you a human being or a pioneer of AI?

 

[Citizen66]

Citizen66, are you a human being or a pioneer of AI?

You're two seconds away from my ignore list. I want to discuss this with toggle and lbj. Bye.

 

[Citizen66]

I agree to the woman's right to choose. But I do find abortion deeply sad. That's where I sit.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

So it is connected to society or not then?

It can be. And it can be a personal matter between you and your problematic life (and whose life isn't problematic?). That's my only real point. Yes abortion needs to be legal to help women who are victims of society's pressures in various ways. But it also needs to be legal for women who consider themselves to be victims of nothing more than their own stupidity/carelessness/bad luck, and for whom it is a choice, taken for personal reasons, reasons that, frankly, are nobody else's damn business.

ETA: I hate the word, but 'empowering' seems apt here. Acknowledging the woman's agency.

 

[Citizen66]

It can be. And it can be a personal matter between you and your problematic life (and whose life isn't problematic?). That's my only real point. Yes abortion needs to be legal to help women who are victims of society's pressures in various ways. But it also needs to be legal for women who consider themselves to be victims of nothing more than their own stupidity/carelessness/bad luck, and for whom it is a choice, taken for personal reasons, reasons that, frankly, are nobody else's damn business.

I agree with all that. But pregnancy being an inconvenience is *also* dictated by wider society. I find it intersting that in your example you placed contact with the dickhead above allowing a foetus to grow into a life. If that's a choice a woman has to make it's sad, and it is connected with patriarchy.

 

[mentalchik]

Sometimes a woman just doesn't want to be pregnant and that's all it is......................

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I agree with all that.

tbh I thought you would. I was a bit surprised by your posts on this. I'm not going to argue further. I think it's ok to be saddened by the thought of abortion. (It's ok not to be, too, though.)

 

[Citizen66]

Sometimes a woman just doesn't want to be pregnant and that's all it is......................

But sometimes there's more to it. Why are people fighting what I'm saying?

 

[bluescreen]

tbh I thought you would. I was a bit surprised by your posts on this. I'm not going to argue further. I think it's ok to be saddened by the thought of abortion.

Especially if you're one of the parties involved. Presumptuous, if not.

 

[Citizen66]

tbh I thought you would. I was a bit surprised by your posts on this. I'm not going to argue further. I think it's ok to be saddened by the thought of abortion.

I wouldn't be surprised. I actually thought my post was in defence of women but it seems to have got heckles up.

 

[mentalchik]

But sometimes there's more to it. Why are people fighting what I'm saying?

I wasn't fighting you hunny ............and there are obviously a myriad of reasons why a woman may choose to have an abortion

 

[Citizen66]

My argument: society should be more supportive of women.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I wouldn't be surprised. I actually thought my post was in defence of women but it seems to have got heckles up.

Agreeing furiously. That's what urban does.

 

[Citizen66]

I am going to fuck off now...

 

[bluescreen]

My argument: society should be more supportive of women.

Agreed! But so often this is used as an argument against choice, where it should be an argument for more choice.

 

[Citizen66]

Agreed! But so often this is used as an argument against choice, where it should be an argument for more choice.

I agree with a woman's right to have the ultimate say over her own body. I don't like the word 'choice' particularly. Choice is liberalism and can be steeped in self-centredness. Shrugging shoulders and making it flippant leaves a sour taste.