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Criminalising Pregnant Mothers who Drink

I think it's really important to acknowledge that it's fine to feel no regrets at all when terminating an unwanted pregnancy. I feel there is a bit of undertone on this thread that it SHOULD be a traumatic experience which makes me very uncomfortable and is IMO just as unsupportive of a woman's right to choose as the SPUC mob (indeed it's a central tenet of their proselytising)

If that's a reference to any of my posts it wasn't my intention. I'm a man and I've obviously never had an abortion myself and my only experience of it is of 2 friends in China (friends, ie. not my pregnancies, one of them had had 6 abortions) who were both very traumatised by it as there's a lot of moralising speeches from the health workers (about premarital sex in the first place, not terminating pregnancies) and they seem to make the whole experience as unpleasant for unmarried women as they possibly can. I found it unpleasant just listening to it let alone going through it and it's stayed with me. Health workers over here are probably a bit more sensible and grown up about it and I certainly don't think it's something that women should be made to feel regret or guilt about and I apologise if any of my posts gave that impression.
 
No it really wasn't. Your posts tell a horrific story and I sensed no judgement from you at all about how women 'should' feel.

I can also totally understand too how abortion is a very complex emotional topic for men. The whole area of conception/pregnancy is very fraught between the sexes.
 
No it really wasn't. Your posts tell a horrific story and I sensed no judgement from you at all about how women 'should' feel.

I can also totally understand too how abortion is a very complex emotional topic for men. The whole area of conception/pregnancy is very fraught between the sexes.

It can be (and it's good to have that recognised) but it doesn't necessarily have to be.

My only experience with abortion was a few years ago with my then partner, the result of contraception failure. We both had children already and were in our mid-forties, so neither of us wanted another child and the decision about what to do was simple and obvious for both of us.

It was still a difficult process to go through, both the bureaucratic bit and then the physical medical bit (it was a very early, medical termination, so administered in a clinic, then go home for the thing to actually happen), but I don't think either of us found it particularly difficult emotionally, for want of a better word.

And I guess that just as posters have already said it depends on the person how easy/difficult the decision is and how easy/difficult the process is, it also depends on all sorts of other factors including where you are in your life - it's really not possible either to generalise or to imagine that one person's experience with a particular set of circumstances has any relation to another person's or even the same person with different circs.

The final thing I'll say is that it's absolutely essential for abortion to be available for women on demand, but that it's also important that a range of contraception is easily and freely available. My experience before and after the above incident is that getting access to effective choice of contraception on the NHS can be a real struggle and that process needs to be made far easier.
 
http://feministing.com/2014/12/16/w...enies-her-prenatal-care-to-protect-her-fetus/

Wisconsin has a law on the books that allows the authorities to lock up a pregnant person who’s used illegal drugs if she “habitually lacks self-control” and “there is a ‘substantial risk’ that the health of the egg, embryo, fetus, or child upon birth will be ‘seriously affected.'” Here’s what that looked like in practice for one Wisconsin woman.

Tamara Loerstcher was suffering from an untreated thyroid condition and depression and had begun to self medicate with drugs when, in late July 2014, she suspected she might also be pregnant. Loerstcher, uninsured at the time, went to an Eau Claire, Wisconsin, hospital for medical treatment and to confirm her pregnancy.

After submitting to a urinalysis, Loerstcher disclosed her past drug use to hospital workers. But instead of caring for Loerstcher, who as it turns out was 14 weeks pregnant, hospital workers had her jailed.

Loerstcher’s medical records were handed over to the state without her knowledge. She was accused of “abuse of an unborn child” and had to sit through a hearing in which her 14-week-old fetus was appointed a lawyer. She was ordered to go to in-patient drug treatment — despite the fact that she had not used any drugs recently — and when she refused, she was held in contempt of court and sent to jail for 17 days.

One would think that when the state incarcerates a pregnant woman in order to “protect” her fetus, they’d at least do everything they can to ensure a healthy pregnancy — that is literally the only supposed purpose of such a law, after all. You’d be wrong. During her time in jail, Loerstcher didn’t have access to prenatal care and when she was experiencing cramping, she wasn’t allowed to see her regular doctor. She was told she’d need to see a jail-appointed doctor who demanded she take a test to confirm the pregnancy — even though the only reason she was in jail in the first place was because she was pregnant. When she refused, she was thrown in solitary confinement and threatened with a taser.

And Loerstcher’s nightmare isn’t over. For the crime of taking illegal drugs before she realized she was pregnant and being honest about it when she sought medical care, she’ll be on the child abuse registry for life and therefore unable to work as a nurse’s aid to support her son when he’s born next month. As Katie McDonough recaps at Salon, “In the service of ‘protecting’ Loertscher’s fetus, the state deprived her of healthcare and her freedom. Soon, it may also compromise her ability to work and support her family.”

Loerstcher, along with attorneys from the National Advocates for Pregnant Women and other reproductive rights groups, are filing a lawsuit challenging Wisconsin’s law. But remember: it’s not just Wisconsin. Manystates are using various laws — from “chemical endangerment” to “fetal harm” statutes — to criminalize pregnancy — mostly for poor, drug-using, women of color.
 
I hate to invoke Godwin's law but there is some fucked up shit going on here where the foetus is revered but no one gives a shit what happens to it once its out of the womb

This ^ is one of the things that makes me the most angry......
 
It's not about revering the foetus really, though, is it? The foetus is an excuse for exercising power over the woman's body, to say to her: Look, here is something greater than you. And yes, we acknowledge you are wonderful because you gave life to this wonderful thing, but now fuck off. It's all about power. Never let's mistake this for an argument about life, however much it harnesses honest sentiment.
 
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