Cost of Living Crisis: Enough is Enough Campaign

[Smokeandsteam]

I'm not opposed to what you say exactly, but I think the detail is partly in how much a co-ordinating role slips into becoming the sole controlling and decision making role. And how much autonomy are these groups going to have do you think? It seems pretty vague atm, as well as slow moving, I've not seen any of the local group stuff advertised at all yet, nor had any emails about it. Don't Pay have about 250 local groups already, what's slowing the EiE groups down from being announced? Much union office staff and bureacracy is often part of the 'cobweb left' imo.

• what the coordinating role is, and how much control they have, we’ll need to see. But there has to be coordination, and leaving it to local groups to decide it risks usual suspect groups taking control. See, ideally we’d all like it to be organic and horizontal but in practice unless the union stewards (and presumably food bank coordinators etc) do the work or invites other do assume ‘a leadership role’. Then we are in Peoples Assembly territory.
• it is slow moving. Rallies and the national day of action so far. I’m hoping it’s to allow others to come on board and ensure things are properly thought out to avoid previous pitfalls, but I take the point and also agree on union full time staff. But they aren’t going to be the coordinators as I understand it. It’s rank and file stewards.

 

[LDC]

• what the coordinating role is, and how much control they have, we’ll need to see. But there has to be coordination, and leaving it to local groups to decide it risks usual suspect groups taking control. See, ideally we’d all like it to be organic and horizontal but in practice unless the union stewards (and presumably food bank coordinators etc) do the work or invites other do assume ‘a leadership role’. Then we are in Peoples Assembly territory.
• it is slow moving. Rallies and the national day of action so far. I’m hoping it’s to allow others to come on board and ensure things are properly thought out to avoid previous pitfalls, but I take the point and also agree on union full time staff. But they aren’t going to be the coordinators as I understand it. It’s rank and file stewards.

Yeah, I'm not a grassroots/no leader fetishist, I totally agree some level of control and co-ordination is important, especially in the early stages. I suspect the reality is some groups will work well and some will become the usual suspects, depending on a bunch of different factors, one of which will be the initial union co-ordinators and what they're like. I think big cities are just doomed to the later 'usual suspect' weirdness usually, unless there's enough people to have more neighbourhood and smaller area groups very early on.

 

[hitmouse]

• what the coordinating role is, and how much control they have, we’ll need to see. But there has to be coordination, and leaving it to local groups to decide it risks usual suspect groups taking control. See, ideally we’d all like it to be organic and horizontal but in practice unless the union stewards (and presumably food bank coordinators etc) do the work or invites other do assume ‘a leadership role’. Then we are in Peoples Assembly territory.
• it is slow moving. Rallies and the national day of action so far. I’m hoping it’s to allow others to come on board and ensure things are properly thought out to avoid previous pitfalls, but I take the point and also agree on union full time staff. But they aren’t going to be the coordinators as I understand it. It’s rank and file stewards.

Yeah, it's a tricky one to work out - I don't have that much of a problem starting off with RMT/CWU stewards forming the local leadership, better that than the usual. But the problem is how to widen that out without it turning to PA mk II - a local community group I'm involved in has just voted to look into affiliation (the motion had to be to look into affiliating rather than actually affiliating because we've not been able to get an explanation of what the process actually involves, despite asking around), and if/when that happens it'd seem fair for us to also get a seat at the table. But is there a way to do that without then having it turn into "well, here's the rep from Stand Up to Racism, and here's the rep from Unite Against Fascism, and here's the rep from TUSC, and here's the rep from Youth Against Racism in Europe, and here's..."? Dunno.

 

[LDC]

Yeah, it's a tricky one to work out - I don't have that much of a problem starting off with RMT/CWU stewards forming the local leadership, better that than the usual. But the problem is how to widen that out without it turning to PA mk II - a local community group I'm involved in has just voted to look into affiliation (the motion had to be to look into affiliating rather than actually affiliating because we've not been able to get an explanation of what the process actually involves, despite asking around), and if/when that happens it'd seem fair for us to also get a seat at the table. But is there a way to do that without then having it turn into "well, here's the rep from Stand Up to Racism, and here's the rep from Unite Against Fascism, and here's the rep from TUSC, and here's the rep from Youth Against Racism in Europe, and here's..."? Dunno.

And with it being like that it's hard not to see how it won't get bogged down in bureaucracy, like endless discussions about what groups can affiliate and ask for a rep if that's going to be the structure. And then reps having to keep going back to their own groups for decisions and agreements. It can be a hard balance between small groups quietly making decisions behind the scenes, and a slow moving mess of endless discussion about everything.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Yeah, I just found my way to the DPUK website to sign up and was a bit disappointed to see where the numbers were at. This really, really needs to be pushed by EIE. If it fails to get anywhere near 1 million, it feels like a union strike ballot where you get a yes, but the turnout isn't high enough - in practice a win for the bosses.

Yes I had a panic attack when I saw where the numbers were and it turned into a full blown psychotic episode* when I seen folk on urban using folk like me on PP meters as an excuse to discourage anyone else signing up.

*hyperbole

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

TBH i haven't seen Martin Lewis get behind this campaign. I could be mistaken ofc. But his appeals to government and his love of financial bullshit spell capitalist pigdog to me. I know his advice helps people, but ultimately he's not remotely helping create real change and his message boards are run by some of the most right wing nutters ever.

Of course he hasn't, this shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone that's ever followed the guy. He has issued stark warnings to the government that they need to get on top of a potential "poll tax moment" in this country. I mean he means well but anyone in my financial bracket has known for years this guy has fucking limits and his limits usually present themselves as a ceiling to the likes of me.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Yeah, it's a tricky one to work out - I don't have that much of a problem starting off with RMT/CWU stewards forming the local leadership, better that than the usual. But the problem is how to widen that out without it turning to PA mk II - a local community group I'm involved in has just voted to look into affiliation (the motion had to be to look into affiliating rather than actually affiliating because we've not been able to get an explanation of what the process actually involves, despite asking around), and if/when that happens it'd seem fair for us to also get a seat at the table. But is there a way to do that without then having it turn into "well, here's the rep from Stand Up to Racism, and here's the rep from Unite Against Fascism, and here's the rep from TUSC, and here's the rep from Youth Against Racism in Europe, and here's..."? Dunno.

Yeah, I think you’ve raised a key point. There is undoubtedly the risk that precisely what you describe will occur as it widens out.

What I will say is that in my experience the types of project undertaken and the agreed method of work are vital.

Fundamentally, campaigns where the activists are in a supportive role and where the demands arise from within the community itself have the best chance of success. Where an issue is owned by the community and where the emphasis is on placing those affected in the driving seat it should mean new leaders arise from the activity itself.

None of this is easy - I know - and it is resource intensive, but so be it. There aren’t any shortcuts that work.

Personally, I’m keen to discuss where EiE is on community mobilisation and resistance around energy bills. But there will be other issues that communities will have around resources, facilities, safety etc and the starting point has to be to listen and gain trust.

As for affiliation, I feel your pain and then some. I haven’t forgot your questions about what is happening with Unite. I’ll reply when I am sure of the facts and have calmed down about it.

 

[hitmouse]

EiE reckon they're announcing details of branches this week:


Greater Manchester Tenants Union just affiliated:

 

[Smokeandsteam]

EiE have also produced a strike map. Enter your postcode and you can see where your nearest picket lines are:

Find my nearest strike

 

[LDC]

EiE have also produced a strike map. Enter your postcode and you can see where your nearest picket lines are:

Find my nearest strike

That's been going ages, nothing to do with Enough is Enough.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

That's been going ages, nothing to do with Enough is Enough.

Fair point. They have sent it by email to their 130,000 sign ups though and as Hitmouse posted are now forming branches

 

[Wilf]

Burham's positioning is interesting, supporting EIE and MPs on picket lines, but not DPUK. INteresting, but just about what you could have predicted. I'm sure his support for EIE is genuine, but there's an element of using a veneer of extra parliamentary politics to position himself as the left candidate to succeed starmer. It will be interesting to see if he pulls back if/when EIE rallies or demands get a little spicier.

Andy Burnham criticises Starmer’s policy against joining picket lines

Manchester mayor says he sees no controversy in Labour frontbenchers joining strikers during cost of living crisis

www.theguardian.com

 

[Smokeandsteam]

500,000 sign ups now:

 

[Wilf]

Some good numbers there. Be interesting to know how many of those are people who have recently left the Labour Party or have been involved in left organisations. Regardless, in footballing parlance, the campaign needs to 'transition' into stalls and leafleting now, going beyond the usual suspects. No reason to be too pessimistic about that yet and EIE really does seem to be about that link between organised workers and communities. Whether union leaders are able to see this as a potential movement that they ultimately might not control... well, we'll see.

 

[Red Sky]

 

[brogdale]

The masters of the fucking universe reckon we could get to 22% flation.

FFS

 

[BristolEcho]

View attachment 340354

Pay up and shut up.

 

[Calamity1971]

 

[AmateurAgitator]

View attachment 340354

Exatcly the position of the vast majority of the Labour Party during the poll tax years with Kinnock as leader.

 

[hitmouse]

500,000 sign ups now:

Dunno if this actually interesting to anyone else, but I just had a look at the numbers for their socials, after looking at their insta and thinking "74k is a lot of people, but also not as massive as I'd expect." They're at 74k on insta, 180.5k on twitter, 7k on tiktok, 38k likes/48k follows on fb. So if that's accurate, that's a hell of a lot of people who are signing up to the campaign that aren't necessarily engaging with their social media. Dunno what to take from that, other than a reminder that actually not everyone is on social media all day?

 

[ska invita]

Dunno if this actually interesting to anyone else, but I just had a look at the numbers for their socials, after looking at their insta and thinking "74k is a lot of people, but also not as massive as I'd expect." They're at 74k on insta, 180.5k on twitter, 7k on tiktok, 38k likes/48k follows on fb. So if that's accurate, that's a hell of a lot of people who are signing up to the campaign that aren't necessarily engaging with their social media. Dunno what to take from that, other than a reminder that actually not everyone is on social media all day?

if they did a post on here i might give them a like

 

[Serge Forward]

Dunno if this actually interesting to anyone else, but I just had a look at the numbers for their socials, after looking at their insta and thinking "74k is a lot of people, but also not as massive as I'd expect." They're at 74k on insta, 180.5k on twitter, 7k on tiktok, 38k likes/48k follows on fb. So if that's accurate, that's a hell of a lot of people who are signing up to the campaign that aren't necessarily engaging with their social media. Dunno what to take from that, other than a reminder that actually not everyone is on social media all day?

Signed up early doors and I get the occasional email with links to pickets and strike map but I heard nowt about a local EiE meeting till after the event - and that was anarchist communist comrades who told me it'd happened. I'm not on any social media nonsense though, and won't be joining any social media any time soon, so don't count.

 

[Karl Masks]

if the goal isn't, ultimately, to take power, what is the endgame and how will they achieve it?

 

[MickiQ]

Is that 500k actually individual peeps who have signed up or are they counting the membership of any union that has affiliated itself?

 

[The39thStep]

A pal of mine said that there was, in his estimation, around 1, 500 at the Manchester rally both inside and out

 

[Calamity1971]

A pal of mine said that there was, in his estimation, around 1, 500 at the Manchester rally both inside and out

According to one of the speakers live on FB the cathedral was full and there was 5k outside

 

[The39thStep]

According to one of the speakers live on FB the cathedral was full and there was 5k outside

I hope there was. The 1.5k was just a text message that I got.

 

[LDC]

I started off slightly cynical but also quite hopeful about EiE, but I'm increasingly seeing it as problematic, see Burnham above for example, not to mention that they are at best being slightly dismissive of other stuff going on, at worst I'd say they're being disruptive, from the main movers (as that's all there is at the moment). I really hope it isn't the case, but I think the more local groups will be firmly under the influence, if not control, of people with politics that will shy away from anything that's not by-the-book very bureaucratic and ineffective activity. The even more cynical side of me thinks this is likely a power grab to make sure they control and direct any anger towards how things are.

 

[ska invita]

I started off slightly cynical but also quite hopeful about EiE, but I'm increasingly seeing it as problematic, see Burnham above for example, not to mention that they are at best being slightly dismissive of other stuff going on, at worst I'd say they're being disruptive, from the main movers (as that's all there is at the moment). I really hope it isn't the case, but I think the more local groups will be firmly under the influence, if not control, of people with politics that will shy away from anything that's not by-the-book very bureaucratic and ineffective activity. The even more cynical side of me thinks this is likely a power grab to make sure they control and direct any anger towards how things are.

I see this as the formation of a continuity Labour party in embryo. A degree of power grab in that for sure

 

[danny la rouge]

Dunno what to take from that, other than a reminder that actually not everyone is on social media all day?

Well, exactly. People on Twitter seem to think Twitter is the entirety of human discourse. But I hardly know anyone in real life who uses it. I have one friend who does (I introduced him to it, Bakunin forgive me), but that’s it.

Apparently the average time spent on Twitter is 4 minutes per day.