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Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

Leadership crisis in Britain 2016-2024 at this rate.

Some consistent messaging and actual leadership would be very nice. It would also be nice not to have every speech used as part of the culture war and dismiss a chunk of the electorate.
 
Teaboy said:
If they were worried about compliance before it must be even more of a worry now that a lot of people have put plans in place and have got into the headspace of seeing family over Christmas.
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Yep. They must have a fairly good grasp of likely compliance rates with any Xmas u-turn. Not helped by the way journalists have been obsessively asking about Christmas in press conferences about covid since October.
 
bimble said:
Yep. They must have a fairly good grasp of likely compliance rates with any Xmas u-turn. Not helped by the way journalists have been obsessively asking about Christmas in press conferences about covid since October.
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You have more confidence in them than I do...
 
Hmm. Maybe my insistence on the idea that most people won’t change their plans whatever government says now is partly because I find it depressing to think that a large proportion of us, having all the information already as we do, would still wait for Johnson to tell us what to do. Loads of people will have chosen to not see vulnerable relatives this year regardless of Johnson’s gift, etc.
 
bimble said:
Hmm. Maybe my insistence on the idea that most people won’t change their plans whatever government says now is partly because I find it depressing to think that a large proportion of us, having all the information already as we do, would still wait for Johnson to tell us what to do. Loads of people will have chosen to not see vulnerable relatives this year regardless of Johnson’s gift, etc.
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I think cautious people will be more cautious but others will take official guidance as a green light and others will push it past what is permitted. It's like all the other restrictions but with more hype and desperation.
 
I reckon that those of us already in Tier 3 won't be put into Tier 2 tomorrow, because that clown in Downing St will say "You've all done jolly well. Stick it out for another few days until the we give everyone a chance to see their family for Christmas" then, the day before the Christmas free for all, he'll say he's cancelled it with a heavy heart and alas and how sorry he is and how he knows we're all good eggs who don't want to swamp the NHS and that the scientists are all big nasty meanies.
 
I’m really conflicted about the Christmas thing. I absolutely agree that it’s madness for households to be mixing over Christmas but I’m going to be one of those arseholes begging for an exception.
My relative is vulnerable, has MH issues and I really don’t want them to be alone this Christmas. I’d be desperately worried about them. They’re in tier 3 and travelling from almost the other end of the country on public transport. It probably is risky but actually not doing it could be worse.
Whatever happens, I hope they still come.
 
Espresso said:
I reckon that those of us already in Tier 3 won't be put into Tier 2 tomorrow, because that clown in Downing St will say "You've all done jolly well. Stick it out for another few days until the we give everyone a chance to see their family for Christmas" then, the day before the Christmas free for all, he'll say he's cancelled it with a heavy heart and alas and how sorry he is and how he knows we're all good eggs who don't want to swamp the NHS and that the scientists are all big nasty meanies.
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Have things actually got significantly better in any Tier 3 areas? Assuming we're all going to Xmas rules in a other week, wouldn't it be best to just wait until then before relaxing anything?
 
andysays said:
Have things actually got significantly better in any Tier 3 areas? Assuming we're all going to Xmas rules in a other week, wouldn't it be best to just wait until then before relaxing anything?
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I don't know what the rates are like in any other Tier 3 area, but in the North West where I am, it looks like the rate of infection is going down.
That said, I am in no rush to come out of Tier 3 tomorrow or for Christmas. I think the Christmas relaxation idea is crackers.

I'm just fed up of Johnson being such an arse and talking to us as if he's Bertie Wooster and we're all about three.
 
andysays said:
Have things actually got significantly better in any Tier 3 areas? Assuming we're all going to Xmas rules in a other week, wouldn't it be best to just wait until then before relaxing anything?
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Depends how far they are willing to localise decisions.

On the broadest regional level, although London, the South East and the East of England have the most alarming trajectories, there are no regions where I am happy with the data, no region where I think wiggle room to relax is demonstrated to my satisfaction.

But in terms of the smaller areas they actually use when making decisions, perhaps they can still find some where they think the picture is still going in the right direction. A lot of the complaints from various MPs etc about the last set of tier decisions incolved which areas were lumpted together. eg I'm in Warwickshire and there was lots of moaning that they lumped Warwickshire in with Coventry and Solihull when making the decision, and some MPs seemed to be under the impression that Hancock had since assured them that wont happen again, but I dont know if those were false reassurances. And last time I checked, which was some time ago, there were also still big differences between North Warwickshire and South Warwickshire rates of infection.

If it were down to me I wouldnt relax tiers anywhere even if some data supported it, because the measures are too weak in general and the last message I'd want to be sending at this stage of the pandemic is that things are improving and we can relax a bit.
 
There's no way that they'll announce tightening of stuff at christmas - which I'm confident they're about to do - then announce looser restrictions in the run up. Had they not fucked up so badly with London maybe things might be different, but as it is...

The graun has some polling from Ipsos Mori where they asked about what people thought of the current christmas rules, and there's I don't think the numbers suggest there'd be a huge resistance to them changing again:

1608050405317.png
 
Ineptitude resurgence:

www.bbc.co.uk

Covid: Chaotic start for travellers' Covid testing system

The Test to Release programme is supposed to cut quarantine times for people arriving in England.
www.bbc.co.uk

Test to Release, a new system meant to cut quarantine times for travellers arriving in England, has been beset with problems on its first day.
Travellers are allowed to end self-isolation early if they pay for a coronavirus test and get a negative result five days after arriving.
The government picked 11 firms to carry out the private tests.
However, some of the largest Covid test providers were not included and many on the list have hit problems.
The BBC understands that the Department for Transport did not accredit the larger operators who provide Covid tests at scale, because they ran out of time. Instead, smaller operators were given accreditation.
When the scheme launched on Tuesday morning, some test providers were overwhelmed with the sheer volume of demand from the public. One supplier has pulled out completely.
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On compliance: from the latest BBC blog.

As London prepares for tougher coronavirus restrictions from tomorrow, Christmas shoppers give their verdict on the change.

"I don't plan on changing anything at all," one man told the BBC. Another woman said: "It's a mess, they don't know what they're doing, we don't know what we're doing."

Few said they planned to make any changes to their Christmas arrangements, with the rules on households mixing due to be relaxed for five days from 23 December.

"Christmas is about family, it's about friends," said one woman. "And I'd like to kill all my friends and family."
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My bold. In fact, my words. I made the last bit up. But, y'know.
 
Looking at today's figures, they have a seriously big problem.

New cases are up 28.7% in the last 7-days, patients admitted to hospital up 14.7%, total patients in hospitals is a whopping 17,329 - that's well up from the 12,286 on the 31st Oct., when Johnson announced the second 'lockdown'.
 
Oh and about this 'tightening' that some think inevitable. The four nations telephone call is at the request of Sturgeon. It isn't being instigated by Johnson. In fact, he's not even in on the call, it's Gove. Discussing a request from Sturgeon. Against the background of Starmer calling for a change. So excuse me while I don't hold my breath. And the latest seems to be the idea of reducing the limit of households meeting down from 3 to 2.

Radical.
 
Looby said:
I’m really conflicted about the Christmas thing. I absolutely agree that it’s madness for households to be mixing over Christmas but I’m going to be one of those arseholes begging for an exception.
My relative is vulnerable, has MH issues and I really don’t want them to be alone this Christmas. I’d be desperately worried about them. They’re in tier 3 and travelling from almost the other end of the country on public transport. It probably is risky but actually not doing it could be worse.
Whatever happens, I hope they still come.
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I see what you mean, similar situation here, my bubble relative lives alone but fortunately drives. I’d be concerned leaving them alone at Christmas, particularly this year because of non Covid related issues. I must confess that I had hoped that the government would restrict the Christmas rules further because it would have given us time to get used to the idea and think of alternative things to do for Christmas virtually.
 
planetgeli said:
Oh and about this 'tightening' that some think inevitable. The four nations telephone call is at the request of Sturgeon. It isn't being instigated by Johnson. In fact, he's not even in on the call, it's Gove. Discussing a request from Sturgeon. Against the background of Starmer calling for a change. So excuse me while I don't hold my breath. And the latest seems to be the idea of reducing the limit of households meeting down from 3 to 2.

Radical.
Click to expand...

Ah this makes more sense than the government willingly involving the devolved nations in decisions or consulting them before making a decision.
 
planetgeli said:
Oh and about this 'tightening' that some think inevitable. The four nations telephone call is at the request of Sturgeon. It isn't being instigated by Johnson. In fact, he's not even in on the call, it's Gove. Discussing a request from Sturgeon. Against the background of Starmer calling for a change. So excuse me while I don't hold my breath. And the latest seems to be the idea of reducing the limit of households meeting down from 3 to 2.

Radical.
Click to expand...

3 households to 2 would surely make some difference I’d hope. I’d have preferred if they’d started with 2 households and worked their way up to 3 if the rate of infection/hospital admissions were not continuing to increase
 
thismoment said:
3 households to 2 would surely make some difference I’d hope. I’d have preferred if they’d started with 2 households and worked their way up to 3 if the rate of infection/hospital admissions were not continuing to increase
Click to expand...

Can you imagine the frantic and tricky negotiations about which household gets told they're the one that can't come? Urgh. Best off just cancelling the whole thing and promising people an extra bank holiday weekend in the spring or summer or something.
 
Looby said:
I’m really conflicted about the Christmas thing. I absolutely agree that it’s madness for households to be mixing over Christmas but I’m going to be one of those arseholes begging for an exception.
My relative is vulnerable, has MH issues and I really don’t want them to be alone this Christmas. I’d be desperately worried about them. They’re in tier 3 and travelling from almost the other end of the country on public transport. It probably is risky but actually not doing it could be worse.
Whatever happens, I hope they still come.
Click to expand...

There have always been exceptions for caring for vulnerable folk, and so there should be. Most people however haven't got anything in the 'risk' column under staying the fuck home, and it's those people who need to have a serious think about their priorities. I get that people are doing family stuff for the sake of their kids, but the ability of those kids to go back to school after christmas is in the balance right now.

I hope all here and all their loved ones find some way to make the best of all this. Christ what a miserable and brutal year we've had :(
 
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