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Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

I thought restrictions on household visits would be on the list tbh, ridiculous it isn't I think.
Just as an aside, it's a pity that we can't sort ourselves to put that in practice in the absence of johnson et all announcing it. Of course its not easy to gather a consensus around a course of action like that and to put it into practice at the level of communities. But the fact that that we are not even discussing ways to organise ourselves with a view to minimising the virus and protecting the most vulnerable is quite depressing. Lots of people have done great stuff in the pandemic, all over the place, but its the absence of a social movement that's the problem.
 
Just as an aside, it's a pity that we can't sort ourselves to put that in practice in the absence of johnson et all announcing it. Of course its not easy to gather a consensus around a course of action like that and to put it into practice at the level of communities. But the fact that that we are not even discussing ways to organise ourselves with a view to minimising the virus and protecting the most vulnerable is quite depressing. Lots of people have done great stuff in the pandemic, all over the place, but its the absence of a social movement that's the problem.
Even more of an aside but, one of the most depressing things i've seen recently was a pretty dramatic instance of exactly this - how people in general will not do the thing they presumably know is in their best interests collectively - unless or until authority demands it of them:
Week before last i was in a massive full hotel, in a town in Czech republic, about 500 rooms with only two small lifts and a buffet breakfast thing.
On day one about 1% of guests were wearing masks, a tiny tiny number, even in the lifts (no social distancing).
That night the government there announced compulsory mask wearing to return the next day in all indoor spaces and the very next morning there they all were the twats every one of them with their masks on, which they'd obviously all had in their rooms the whole time just waiting to be 'forced' to wear them. Made me mad and also really sad to see it so starkly. I was with my old parents and we wore masks in the lifts etc the whole time, even before the teacher told us to, and were berated by a youtube loon for it.
 
Even more of an aside but, one of the most depressing things i've seen recently was a pretty dramatic instance of exactly this - how people in general will not do the thing they presumably know is in their best interests collectively - unless or until authority demands it of them.

A lot of that is down to conditioning. When people grow up and live under a system where arbitrary authority displays its absurdities as a matter of routine and the rules of the game are so obviously out of whack with reality, people learn to play along with that system, sometimes undermining it, sometimes reinforcing it, often seeking the opportunity to gain from it.

My own attitudes towards the establishment and authorities seemed to help my pandemic predictions and commentary. And I'm pretty sure I developed those initially around the age of 8-12 by observing the absurdities of school authorities, the injustices of the playground, and the ways kids and teachers adapt to bizarre circumstances and uncomfortable situations. Probably enhanced in my case by the natural direction of my gaze, and the fact my parents were teachers (never at a school I went to thank fuck) and I likely absorbed a lot of their 'shop talk' although I dont consciously remember a word of it.
 
Masks work, they really do.

Its not going to be pleasant for the workers but when has anyone cared about them when bringing out policy?

Have they not enforced customers having to wear them in at the same time, though? Those who can, obvs.
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This is the rub there is no enforcement.

Shop or workers aren't going to go out if their way to tell the maskless to mask up because odds are good at least one of them is going to throw a fruit while big business like the supermarkets aren't going to want the pr of turning customers away. Neither are going to put much effort in.
 
Masks work, they really do.

Its not going to be pleasant for the workers but when has anyone cared about them when bringing out policy?

Have they not enforced customers having to wear them in at the same time, though? Those who can, obvs.
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Yep. I think they've increased the fine for not wearing them too. Obviously not in restaurants and pubs. I do feel for the staff there particularly. Rushing about serving people whilst having to wear a mask, when the customers won't be.

has anyone actually beened fined though. :hmm:

And yeah, I know, lest I'm accused of poacher turning gamekeeper ;) I was somewhat sceptical about mask wearing before. I would still prefer not to. It's a bit uncomfortable especially wen wearing shades and travelling for a few hours but as it appears it does have some benefit, gotta be done.
 
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More insults.

I’ll see you all back here on the 13th of October and we’ll see if we are at 50,000 cases and on track for 200 deaths a day.

When it we’re not perhaps people will be thanking the government for the measures that were put in place today.

God help us to find a vaccine soon
God's got nothing to do with it. Maybe that's where you're going wrong.
 
Like I said yesterday, your opinion of what will happen cannot actually be tested because even this government are not stupid enough to do nothing. I see you are trying to weave that into you 'when I come back in a months time' stuff but all you've done is make the sentiment even more absurd. A rigged game that you think you cannot lose, dick.

50,000 is an illustration of how small numbers can become very large numbers when R is well above 1. A lesson this country learnt the hard way the first time around.

Your decision to turn to bollocks instead is a sign of misdirected fear if ever there was one. And yet you have the nerve to accuse others of acting with unreasonable fears on their mind.

On behalf of the 65,000 excess deaths we already had, fuck you.
You just know he's going to go all...

fainting-victorian-lady.jpg
over your closing "fuck you" :D :D :D
 
The only thing it seems they've done right is to say this stuff may need to carry on for six months - no 'Back to normal by Christmas' or 'We'll review it in 4 weeks'. We're going into autumn and winter, letting up on anything is not going to be an option for the next six months. More honestly, we're going to have to control a lot more stuff as well in all likelihood, but we can't expect that level of honesty from these killer klowns.
 
The only thing it seems they've done right is to say this stuff may need to carry on for six months - no 'Back to normal by Christmas' or 'We'll review it in 4 weeks'. We're going into autumn and winter, letting up on anything is not going to be an option for the next six months. More honestly, we're going to have to control a lot more stuff as well in all likelihood, but we can't expect that level of honesty from these killer klowns.
Yes, I feel like this is going to be the background level of restrictions until Spring, but imagine there may be harder lockdowns to coincide with normal school closure times.
 
It's hard to control for but there have been studies.

thanks for posting that.

it appears to focus on transmission within a household, and point out that this is almost unavoidable, and particularly a problem with large intergenerational households, rather than transmission between households, either through visits to the home of others or contact in non-home settings, like workplaces or schools, for example.

but I'm still struggling to see a genuine medical reason why my wife shouldn't be allowed to pop in and visit her mum for a cup of tea after dropping off some shopping, but pubs are still allowed to open, albeit closing at 10pm.
 
but I'm still struggling to see a genuine medical reason why my wife shouldn't be allowed to pop in and visit her mum for a cup of tea after dropping off some shopping, but pubs are still allowed to open, albeit closing at 10pm.

At the risk at becoming boring on this, the medical reason goes like this: either pubs can be open (until 10), or your wife can visit her mum (and by extension everyone is allowed to visit other people etc). The allowing of either category of activity will result in a number of infections which is acceptable (in terms of controlling exponential spread), but twice that number (ie if both activities are allowed) is too many.

The calculation is then which activity will be more beneficial to society overall - here there is a value judgement that pubs being open (combination of social interaction, good for mental health, and economic activity, good for livelihoods and still having a functioning pub sector to come back to when all this is over) is overall more beneficial than alllowing people to meet in their homes (social interaction only, primarily) (I am aware I am simplifying at almost every point here but the principle is I believe sound).

This calculation is done on a societial basis,so in the short term at least there will always be some people disbenefitted (those who don’t go to pubs for instance). However assuming the inputs and assumptions are correct, it should be the best overall result. One can always argue the inputs and assumptions of course and here it becomes politics. But there (or the first half of it anyway) is the medical reason.

Short version: Scientists say we can do X or Y (but not both), politicians decide which we get to do.
 
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Nope, they can stay open - as long as they claim they are making amends. One of my locals got done for having people hiding in cupboards in April, but they stayed open (they may have shut for one or two days).
Ah ok. It was shared in a local FB group and said they had to close, but this makes more sense.
 
At the risk at becoming boring on this, the medical reason goes like this: either pubs can be open (until 10), or your wife can visit her mum (and by extension everyone is allowed to visit other people etc). The allowing of either category of activity will result in a number of infections which is acceptable (in terms of controlling exponential spread), but twice that number (ie if both activities are allowed) is too many.

The calculation is then which activity will be more beneficial to society overall - here there is a value judgement that pubs being open (combination of social interaction, good for mental health, and economic activity, good for livelihoods and still having a functioning pub sector to come back to when all this is over) is overall more beneficial than alllowing people to meet in their homes (social interaction only, primarily) (I am aware I am simplifying at almost every point here but the principle is I believe sound).

This calculation is done on a societial basis,so in the short term at least there will always be some people disbenefitted (those who don’t go to pubs for instance). However assuming the inputs and assumptions are correct, it should be the best overall result. One can always argue the inputs and assumptions of course and here it becomes politics. But there (or the first half of it anyway) is the medical reason.

Short version: Scientists say we can do X or Y (but not both), politicians decide which we get to do.

Spot on.

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has anyone actually beened fined though. :hmm:

And yeah, I know, lest I'm accused of poacher turning gamekeeper ;) I was somewhat sceptical about mask wearing before. I would still prefer not to. It's a bit uncomfortable especially wen wearing shades and travelling for a few hours but as it appears it does have some benefit, gotta be done.

There's no way to actually fine people because it states in the official rules you don't need to show any proof that you're exempt, or even give a reason.

Now me, I have anxiety about drowning in my own tissue fluid because someone didn't want to wear a mask but that's not the kind of anxiety anyone gives a shit about apparently.
 
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