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Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

Cloo said:
I'm wondering about how there'll be lots of small changes that may remain permanent things after this - was just looking at a piece about people's cancelled weddings not being insured and wondering whether, during this they might start letting celebrants marry people anywhere so they can have home/outdoor ceremonies more easily (in fact I think this might already be a thing they've introduced, but can't find where I think I read it) - because there's going to be a huge backlog of people who couldn't get hitched, a lot of venues permanently shut and it would help a lot to allow people to get married. Then it would probably stay being a thing.
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Weddings can already be conducted almost anywhere as long as there's a permanent structure - the whole ceremony can even be outdoors, it's just the signing of the register, the legal part, that has to be done indoors at a registered venue. I'm not sure why the register signing has to be indoors, but I guess it's for privacy reasons, same as you're not allowed to have your whole wedding party in there with you as you sign, just your witnesses.

TBH it's fair enough because arranging an entirely outdoors wedding doesn't work with our weather anyway!

Private homes are only authorised if one of the couple is seriously ill or housebound, but that would cover quarantine. Allowing more weddings at private homes probably isn't a good idea when you're trying to reduce virus transmission.
 
I really should have said that that whole 2-4 weeks behind the mid-March infection level thing does require the rather generous assumption that their disease surveillance and various estimates are a better fit with reality than they were last time. And Ferguson has left quite a broad range in his estimate. And of course he isnt officially involved in the same way he used to be, as his lockdown rule breaking lead to his resignation.

I should also have linked to an article where the Ferguson comments were quoted.

www.bbc.co.uk

Covid: PM considering new restrictions amid second coronavirus wave

Options include a ban on households mixing in England, as a further 4,422 UK cases are confirmed.
www.bbc.co.uk

Also contains the BBC version of the hospital admissions graph that they have started showing from time to time in recent days.
 
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At last, at least those on low income will get a £500 payment if they have to self-isolate, too little, too late, but certainly an improvement.

Also the fines available for people returning from aboard are being extended to all people that are required to self-isolate, and about bloody time!

  • People in England who are told to self-isolate by NHS Test and Trace face fines of £1,000 - up to £10,000 for the worst offenders - if they fail to do so
  • This includes those who test positive and those identified as close contacts of confirmed cases
  • It also includes employers who force staff to ignore an order to self-isolate
  • NHS Test and Trace will make regular contact with those isolating to check compliance
  • The measures apply from 28 September and will be enforced by police and local authorities
  • Those in receipt of benefits or on low income and who cannot work from home may receive a £500 one-off payment if self-isolating
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BBC LINK

Of course, there remains the problem of actually enforcing it, which has not been happening much with those returning from aboard, who think it's OK to go about their normal lives, spreading the virus around, as we've had in Worthing, and there's an even a worst case in Bolton -

He said: "We had an extreme spike where we went from 12 cases per 100,000 and in less than three weeks we were up at 212 cases."

"We had somebody who did not adhere to quarantine, did not stay the 14 days, literally went on a pub crawl with a number of mates," Mr Greenhalgh said.

"From that incident which took place over a weekend - (they) visited a number of premises - led to a large number of individual transmissions from that one person which you can imagine then is like holding back the tide because he then became symptomatic two days after they had all gone on this pub crawl.

"That is four or five days where all the people he was in contact with have been going about their normal day-to-day business."
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BBC LINK
 
cupid_stunt - yes the £500 payment is one of the first sensible things they've fucking done. Don't know what hoops they'll make people jump through to get it, though, considering they assume every poor person is a liar when it comes to benefits.

So I'm guessing now we're gonna be locked down for both my husband's and my birthday now - his is mid October, mine mid Nov. Was going to try to go to electronic music exhibition at Design museum for his bday, but will wait until at least end next week before booking now #firstworldproblem
 
cupid_stunt said:
At last, at least those on low income will get a £500 payment if they have to self-isolate, too little, too late, but certainly an improvement.

Also the fines available for people returning from aboard are being extended to all people that are required to self-isolate, and about bloody time!



BBC LINK

Of course, there remains the problem of actually enforcing it, which has not been happening much with those returning from aboard, who think it's OK to go about their normal lives, spreading the virus around, as we've had in Worthing, and there's an even a worst case in Bolton -



BBC LINK
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That guy in Bolton was just supporting the travel and hospitality industries like we've all been encouraged to do, wasn't he?
 
Cloo said:
cupid_stunt - yes the £500 payment is one of the first sensible things they've fucking done. Don't know what hoops they'll make people jump through to get it, though, considering they assume every poor person is a liar when it comes to benefits.

So I'm guessing now we're gonna be locked down for both my husband's and my birthday now - his is mid October, mine mid Nov. Was going to try to go to electronic music exhibition at Design museum for his bday, but will wait until at least end next week before booking now #firstworldproblem
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I had my 50th via Zoom back in March. Was meant to have a big do back home with all the London Fam visiting my home town for the first time. My wife’s 50th is in December (few days before Christmas) and we had a big trip to Costa Rica booked for that and Christmas.

We’d been planning/saving for both 50th’s for a cpl of years. We’ve saved a shit load of money from cancelling both which is an upside but :(
 
cupid_stunt said:
At last, at least those on low income will get a £500 payment if they have to self-isolate, too little, too late, but certainly an improvement.

Also the fines available for people returning from aboard are being extended to all people that are required to self-isolate, and about bloody time!



BBC LINK

Of course, there remains the problem of actually enforcing it, which has not been happening much with those returning from aboard, who think it's OK to go about their normal lives, spreading the virus around, as we've had in Worthing, and there's an even a worst case in Bolton -



BBC LINK
Click to expand...

The payment is a good idea, but its something that there was zero excuse for not doing right at the start of this - the unstable position that many in the country were already in with regards to renting, gig work etc meant that they weren't going to be able to isolate for a couple of weeks without getting into real trouble. I think there are better ways of doing it, mind - covering rent / mortgage costs for the duration of the quarantine (and for any lockdown) would remove a lot more pressure than a random £500 will, and it would probably be cheaper, less open to fraud than the furlough scheme was and would be targetted more on the people who actually need the help. There is also (with mortgages at any rate) the option to get the money back down the line.

The enforcement thing is just Tory announcements masquerading as policy, though - there is no extra money for enforcement, no political support for what enforcement would mean and the system (probably) won't be able to cope with the appeals anyway. The only way it would ever work is to have people checking quarantine - ie: turning up at your house with no notice at random times and checking who is present - and for that they'd need in the high tens of thousands of people who'd have to be trained and equipped to do that. Those people would be far better employed (for everyone) if they were doing home testing visits instead, as part of track and trace.
 
zahir said:
Test and trace.

www.opendemocracy.net

Revealed: Travel agent lands fresh Serco Test and Trace work – despite staff training concerns

Hays Travel has banned staff from speaking to the media about Serco’s heavily-criticised COVID-19 operations – but some have raised the alarm over lack of training and poor treatment
www.opendemocracy.net www.opendemocracy.net
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In principle there is nothing wrong with using customer service staff who'd otherwise be redundant to do this (and there wouldn't be if you got (for example) airline crew to do the home testing visits as well, providing they were trained and equipped properly), but it has to be part of a properly designed system and not the zoo of subcontractors outside public health authorities that we have now.
 
Numbers said:
I had my 50th via Zoom back in March. Was meant to have a big do back home with all the London Fam visiting my home town for the first time. My wife’s 50th is in December (few days before Christmas) and we had a big trip to Costa Rica booked for that and Christmas.

We’d been planning/saving for both 50th’s for a cpl of years. We’ve saved a shit load of money from cancelling both which is an upside but :(
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My friends got stuck in Costa Rica when all this kicked off. Took them about 10 days to get a flight home.
Sorry your trips and celebrations have been fucked up. It’s made me so sad to see all the stuff in the calendar pass by.
 
Looking at how things are now developing around infection rates, "they've" already lost control, haven't they ?

The rule of six & local lockdowns, imho, are only going to slow the peak, and by then we'll almost be in the winter 'flu season. So, instead of five weeks growth & five months decay for the first wave, and woefully under measuring cases ...

Definitely a lot more worried than I was; luckily I'm getting my 'flu jab in a few days and I think I've a good reserve of VitD. Just need to build up my store of "staple" items.

Come on BJ, get that full lockdown (or close to it) organised and enforced asap.
 
Cloo said:
cupid_stunt - yes the £500 payment is one of the first sensible things they've fucking done. Don't know what hoops they'll make people jump through to get it, though, considering they assume every poor person is a liar when it comes to benefits.

So I'm guessing now we're gonna be locked down for both my husband's and my birthday now - his is mid October, mine mid Nov. Was going to try to go to electronic music exhibition at Design museum for his bday, but will wait until at least end next week before booking now #firstworldproblem
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Think it’s actually going be delivered through the local authorities
 
S☼I said:
Not heard anything about the Covid Alert system in ages...did we ever get down to Level 2? Are we at 3 or4 currently?
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It came up on the Andrew Marr Show, when Matt Hancock made a fool of himself by claiming we are still at level 3, which Marr pointed out that involved relaxing restrictions, when they are currently tightening them.

1d.jpg

Clearly we are at level 4 nationally, and 5 in some areas, and about to go to 5 on a national basis,
 
S☼I said:
Not heard anything about the Covid Alert system in ages...did we ever get down to Level 2? Are we at 3 or4 currently?
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If only there was some sort of daily update on the current situation, perhaps with a Q & A session. They could broadcast it on the tv maybe just before the lunch time news. Just a thought.

Re serco I was particularly annoyed the other day when it was put to johnson that the test centre situation was a fuck up of the highest order and he said the NHS were doing a great job. I'm sure he knew that many people would know the great job part was a lie but was hoping they wouldnt notice the NHS lie and think it's the NHS that's doing shit.
 
kalidarkone said:
I think a second national hard lockdown for a couple of weeks now would be a good idea. However when and if that happens I think there will be less compliance compared to the first one and possibly protests and maybe more.
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If there was a lockdown like the beginning it would maybe be easier to police than other more ambiguous measures as we know what the first should look like just glimpsing out the window. It's harder to know what other measures should look like.
 
The alert system chart was not very well done in the first place, and it was crafted with the situation of that particular moment in mind. A period that was all about the lack of plans for dealing with the relaxation of measures post first wave peak.

This problem is especially prominent in the action column for level 4. The wording 'Current social distancing measures and restrictions' is wording of its time, reflecting the measures that were in place when the chart was written, at a time when they were looking forward to us gradually moving down the levels, not going back in the other direction.

Otherwise, if the chart wording is taken literally, restrictions arent reintroduced until level 5, even if 'current' restrictions up till that moment were very weak. And one of the big lessons about a level 5 situation is that you have to act before you get to that situation, otherwise only the strongest full lockdown measures are left as a viable response.

Another issue is how to tell exactly when its appropriate to say we are at level 5 rather than level 4. Because the description of level 5 makes no mention of how large, imminent and unavoidable the 'risk of healthcare services being overwhelmed' needs to be. For example it is not necessary to wait till healthcare services are about to be overwhelmed before judging that this risk is very real. And that matters right about now since the likes of Whitty will already have been able to warn the government that the current estimate for R means the current trajectory will lead to the NHS being overwhelmed later this year.
 
quimcunx said:
If there was a lockdown like the beginning it would maybe be easier to police than other more ambiguous measures as we know what the first should look like just glimpsing out the window. It's harder to know what other measures should look like.
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I agree, however I also know that won't stop Bristol folk from trying to party etc.
 
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Com'on BJ, stop fannying about.

The country needs that national lockdown, now. And for three weeks minimum. Not announcing some weak variation next week and implemention after another "partying" weekend opportunity.
You'll have to extend the furlough scheme and anti-eviction provisions etc, But get on and do it !
People need proper incentives to comply as well as punishments for wilful breaches of isolation.
 
StoneRoad said:
Com'on BJ, stop fannying about.

The country needs that national lockdown, now. And for three weeks minimum. Not announcing some weak variation next week and implemention after another "partying" weekend opportunity.
You'll have to extend the furlough scheme and anti-eviction provisions etc, But get on and do it !
People need proper incentives to comply as well as punishments for wilful breaches of isolation.
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He will 'address the nation' without any stats, deadlines or substance next week.

People will tut and shake their heads at his failings. Social media will be full of piss taking memes and fuck all will change.
 
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