Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[Miss-Shelf]

My understanding is that unis have to open up campuses and give classes in person or lose funding.

shared I think by Chilango on the universities thread Universities are being forced to lie about being COVID safe

 

[Cid]

I'm not actually sure about that. Throughout this process - regardless of how well specific things have been communicated - it strikes me that there has been a very large number of people who work really hard not to understand the reasoning behind the various restrictions. They'd still be at it whatever.

This is true... And you can see it in Germany which I believe has had better messaging (though thinking about it honestly not sure), but still had all those shitty conspiracy protests. But that those people exist regardless doesn't mean you can be lax on messaging to the broader population. One thing here is that, even in my friendship group, there isn't that much understanding or patience for restrictions. People late 20s-early 40s... Those of my friends who do have some grasp generally are either the more internet-focussed types, or people who work for the public sector. You need to be clear, and you need to present your messages on media other than those that you consume - i.e other than the big papers and the TV news. You need to do it with a degree of compassion and consistency. I don't think there is anything unique to the UK character that makes it less likely to be accepting of stringent measures, but people need to understand them, and they need to know that they aren't being singled out for arbitrary reasons.

 

[SlideshowBob]

Yeah, I kind of agree in part, and I think people have been looking to get confused sometimes to justify non-compliance or make a political point. Also it's exposed a shockingly low level of health literacy among (some of) the UK's population.

Definitely been a common trend lately. People who were firmly behind the lockdown at the start when they thought it'd just be a couple of weeks suddenly saying the rules are "too confusing" because the novelty of following them has worn off, and because the new rules in place aren't to their liking.

Probably the case with a fair few people who were initially on furlough. If you had decent living space and were still getting paid then lockdown potentially wasn't too bad a deal for you, provided you had adequate support networks. But if you've not got to go to work again yet can't do all the usual things you'd do at a weekend, suddenly following those stringent rules doesn't quite hold the same appeal as it did before.

 

[sheothebudworths]

I'm not actually sure about that. Throughout this process - regardless of how well specific things have been communicated - it strikes me that there has been a very large number of people who work really hard not to understand the reasoning behind the various restrictions. They'd still be at it whatever.

I don't really understand this - I mean of course there people who are just not going to adhere to any measures and/or will take every opportunity to pick holes in them - but there are also a whole lot of other people, who genuinely don't get it, because it is confusing (and increasingly so) - not everyone reads urban etc - so I think it's right to focus on them.

I would say that even within the SLT at the school I work at.
Throughout the summer they have been SO focused on and consumed with, putting in place the various measures requested - knowing they will change, too, but having to do them anyway - that by the time we opened, there was still no clarity on, for eg, SD and the impact that may have with SI. Earlier on, they were working, blindly, on a much more sensible plan to have half the kids in, which would have meant they could also have staff working 14/21 day rotas on/off-site, to correspond with that, to manage any periods of self-isolation slightly better.
But then they had wide and total reopening dumped on them.
We have only had one staff member go off, so far, in a large school - but I know there was a realisation on the second day that, for eg, the 1 meter rule we can meet in the kitchen (not to mention all the kids coming through the canteen, daily) would mean we would all have to be off, if/when one person has symptoms (I mean, that's how it SHOULD be - but not how it will be, undoubtedly, cos they will just shift the rules to suit the situation, afaic now) - but hence more confusion there, even from my own pov (when I have been scouring all the info, from the start).
So, on the second day back, he asked my manager if there was anyone could be furloughed - but there's not - because now we have five breaks instead of two.

Not meaning to bang on about my own situation but it's dismissive to say that messaging hasn't been confused and there's nothing that could be fixed by better communication, because of what I reckon is a comparatively small number of arseholes who won't do it, whatever the reasoning/communication.

 

[bimble]

People who were firmly behind the lockdown at the start when they thought it'd just be a couple of weeks suddenly saying the rules are "too confusing" because the novelty of following them has worn off, and because the new rules in place aren't to their liking.

I think this self-interest based interpretation might be missing the most obvious factors in why compliance will be so much lower this time- one is total breakdown of trust (Barnard castle onwards) and another is just that fear real visceral fear is a very powerful motivating thing but can’t be sustained over a period of many months, people adapt factor in the new risk, accept it sort of on an emotional level. But also I’m scrabbling about trying to find reasons not to feel bouts of hate and fury towards the twats not wearing masks.

 

[Lord Camomile]

Random thought which I'm sure has been expressed elsewhere: it feels like one of the major failures of the government's communication is that people are trying to work out how to 'game' the rules, rather than understanding and appreciating the underlying biology behind them.

Spurred by a group of my mates considering 6-people bubble 'time shifts', so there's still no more than 6 around at the same time.

See also most sets of football playing mates who apparently consider themselves "organised sport".

 

[Thora]

"The economy" is such an abstract concept that most people don't care about it, not in comparison to seeing their friends and family. So on one level, yes - the rules make sense when you consider that the priority is the economy over family relationships when balancing infection risks. But on a level that is much more real to most people of course it's total bullshit that you can sit on a crowded bus to go and work in your no-social-distancing job while your kids are smushed up against 29 others kids at school, but you can't have a family BBQ at the weekend.

 

[elbows]

"The economy" is such an abstract concept that most people don't care about it, not in comparison to seeing their friends and family. So on one level, yes - the rules make sense when you consider that the priority is the economy over family relationships when balancing infection risks. But on a level that is much more real to most people of course it's total bullshit that you can sit on a crowded bus to go and work in your no-social-distancing job while your kids are smushed up against 29 others kids at school, but you can't have a family BBQ at the weekend.

Yes and the likes of Hancock make this worse when they appeal to people to behave or face stronger measures. I'm sure the government do get some mileage out of the deliberate focus on behaviours they dont want us to do that spread the virus, as opposed to all the things they have been begging people to resume that also spread the virus, but its not like everyone is falling for that, most should see through it. And those that see through it will not react well to the deliberately narrow picture the tories etc have painted.

 

[Miss-Shelf]

Agree sheothebudworths

Throughout the summer they have been SO focused on and consumed with, putting in place the various measures requested - knowing they will change, too, but having to do them anyway - that by the time we opened, there was still no clarity

it's like this in my workplace [HE]
constant plans that change weekly and are now changing daily
great missives from managers which are out of date by the next day
not sure which staff are going to carry on wfh and which ones are on campus
Not sure if we're really going to get going with on campus teaching
not sure which students are going to be online, which ones on campus
money spent on tech that is not necessarily what is needed [esp if we move back online from home]

 

[kenny g]

It is genuinely confusing now. The legislation is far from straightforward and the status of non-statutory guidance doesn't help.

 

[kabbes]

Thing is — it goes without saying and must be obvious to fellow urbanites that I am the cleverest person I know, and by a fair old margin. And yet, the rules are somewhat confusing even to me!!1! They change regularly and because my consumption of news has pretty much ended since I stopped commuting, I’m never really sure if something new is in place. And after I have caught up, I can’t really remember if the rule is now this thing or if that’s the rule from three weeks ago. There’s no apparent logic to any of it that would help me follow a general principle, so I’m left needing to memorise this week’s list of instructions.

Even now — I know it’s six people but is that now two households at most or as many households as you like? Are you allowed overnight stays? And the rules are getting tighter because it’s getting worse but they want me to stop working from home and start commuting, right? You can see how confusion creeps in.

If there was an overarching principle, I could follow it. But it seems to me that some dangerous things are being downright encouraged whilst other innocuous things are banned, so that’s no help.

So I’m left either choosing to totally isolate to ensure I’m following every possible requirement of both rule-following and risk mitigation. Or I just basically make it up as I go along and hope for the best.

 

[Supine]

Thing is — it goes without saying and must be obvious to fellow urbanites that I am the cleverest person I know, and by a fair old margin. And yet, the rules are somewhat confus...

 

[AverageJoe]

Things that make you go hmm.

1. My mate has spent the last week delivering covid screens to London business offices.
2. We got an email from school asking us for feedback on how the lockdown "teaching from home went and how it could be improved".
3. The FA Full Time website for grass roots football had all next week's fixtures removed and then then pit back - someone jumping the gun? I only found out when the team were supposed to be playing contacted me to ask if we'd cancelled.
4. Friend who's high up in Morris ons said they are getting ready to restrict numbers in store again.

Im guessing if anything is goi g to happen then heads of I dustry and departments would have been tipped off but embargoed.

My guess is everything closes apart from offices and schools and shops for at least two weeks. No grass roots sport, no pubs or restaurants, and no rule of six - no meeting in the park or home

 

[eatmorecheese]

basically make it up as I go along and hope for the best.

...and this encapsulates government policy. Then they can disseminate and obfuscate blame. The inquiries will go for longer than our natural lives.

 

[Raheem]

4. Friend who's high up in Morris ons said they are getting ready to restrict numbers in store again.

Went to Morrisons today, and they had reverted to how they were at the beginning of lockdown (queues and barriers at the entrance, single queue for the tills, right down to having no eggs on the shelves, so they've obviously thought about the details).

 

[Lord Camomile]

So I’m left either choosing to totally isolate to ensure I’m following every possible requirement of both rule-following and risk mitigation.

I have basically chosen this option, except for the one day a week where work requires me to be on campus.

Adding to my earlier point, I get really frustrated with people talking about what we're "allowed" to do now rather than what is sensible or makes sense health-wise.

Obviously what's legal does affect what we can do, but since when did we start trusting this of all governments with our health? They wouldn't know how to protect us even if they bloody wanted to!

 

[kabbes]

I have basically chosen this option, except for the one day a week where work requires me to be on campus.

Adding to my earlier point, I get really frustrated with people talking about what we're "allowed" to do now rather than what is sensible or makes sense health-wise.

Obviously what's legal does affect what we can do, but since when did we start trusting this of all governments with our health? They wouldn't know how to protect us even if they bloody wanted to!

But what is the appropriate risk assessment? leaving that to individuals to work out is going to lead to chaos. Surely the point should be for people who are properly informed to set the boundaries for everybody to follow.

 

[Lord Camomile]

But what is the appropriate risk assessment? leaving that to individuals to work out is going to lead to chaos. Surely the point should be for people who are properly informed to set the boundaries for everybody to follow.

Aye, fair point, and I didn't mean to lay most of the blame on the public.

As I say, I'm pretty much hermiting myself in my flat so I don't have to try and work it out myself.

 

[maomao]

But what is the appropriate risk assessment? leaving that to individuals to work out is going to lead to chaos. Surely the point should be for people who are properly informed to set the boundaries for everybody to follow.

We don't have any of that though.

 

[kabbes]

We don't have any of that though.

Well quite. What a fucked up situation.

 

[eatmorecheese]

I've decided along with Mrs Cheese that, as much as possible, we'll go into full lockdown again. I can work from home (luckily) and do a lot of virtual home visits, with socially-distanced visits as needed. I simply don't trust the guidelines and the shambolic hypocrisy demonstrated by Cummings and his blonde thatched gimp, plus Mancock, to approach this any other way.

ETA: This is basically a decision based on personal morality, with the wider social implication of avoiding harm to others as much as possible. I'm very disturbed by the rugged individualists on social media who feel wearing a mask is an infringement of their rights and want to scream at people about 'cowardice' or me being a 'dupe'. Fucking pricks.

 

[Steel Icarus]

Whitty and Valance to give a briefing tomorrow at 11. "We're fucked"

 

[Raheem]

Whitty and Valance to give a briefing tomorrow at 11. "We're fucked"

They need three words to put across their lecterns, so think they will have to add "totally".

 

[SlideshowBob]

Went to Morrisons today, and they had reverted to how they were at the beginning of lockdown (queues and barriers at the entrance, single queue for the tills, right down to having no eggs on the shelves, so they've obviously thought about the details).

Once the toilet roll is gone again we're truly fucked.

 

[frogwoman]

Whitty and Valance to give a briefing tomorrow at 11. "We're fucked"

Seriously?

 

[Raheem]

Once the toilet roll is gone again we're truly fucked.

Thanks for the reminder. Have put 300 rolls on my list.

 

[prunus]

Seriously?

Well the bit in quotation marks is a paraphrase, but basically yes;

UK at 'critical point' over Covid-19, top scientists to tell public

Britain’s most senior government scientists will make a direct appeal to the public on Monday, warning that the coronavirus trend is “heading in the wrong direction” and “a critical point has been reached”.

 

[miss direct]

So...what's the best time to go to the supermarket? I'm out of food and need to go so may as well fill the freezer. When I went last week, it was packed and few masks :/ Was it because I went in the morning?

 

[frogwoman]

Well the bit in quotation marks is a paraphrase, but basically yes;

UK at 'critical point' over Covid-19, top scientists to tell public

Britain’s most senior government scientists will make a direct appeal to the public on Monday, warning that the coronavirus trend is “heading in the wrong direction” and “a critical point has been reached”.

Season 2 of the daily coronavirus briefing show doesn't look very promising tbh

 

[quimcunx]

Thing is — it goes without saying and must be obvious to fellow urbanites that I am the cleverest person I know, and by a fair old margin. And yet, the rules are somewhat confusing even to me!!1! They change regularly and because my consumption of news has pretty much ended since I stopped commuting, I’m never really sure if something new is in place. And after I have caught up, I can’t really remember if the rule is now this thing or if that’s the rule from three weeks ago. There’s no apparent logic to any of it that would help me follow a general principle, so I’m left needing to memorise this week’s list of instructions.

Even now — I know it’s six people but is that now two households at most or as many households as you like? Are you allowed overnight stays? And the rules are getting tighter because it’s getting worse but they want me to stop working from home and start commuting, right? You can see how confusion creeps in.

If there was an overarching principle, I could follow it. But it seems to me that some dangerous things are being downright encouraged whilst other innocuous things are banned, so that’s no help.

So I’m left either choosing to totally isolate to ensure I’m following every possible requirement of both rule-following and risk mitigation. Or I just basically make it up as I go along and hope for the best.

Or was that for Wales? Or maybe it was from that segment on scotland I heard half of.