Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[kabbes]

Com'on BJ, stop fannying about.

The country needs that national lockdown, now. And for three weeks minimum. Not announcing some weak variation next week and implemention after another "partying" weekend opportunity.
You'll have to extend the furlough scheme and anti-eviction provisions etc, But get on and do it !
People need proper incentives to comply as well as punishments for wilful breaches of isolation.

I doubt he reads urban, to be honest.

 

[Badgers]

I doubt he reads urban, to be honest.

He does not even read policy

 

[elbows]

He will 'address the nation' without any stats, deadlines or substance next week.

People will tut and shake their heads at his failings. Social media will be full of piss taking memes and fuck all will change.

I suspect a few opportunities to mock the greatest shits establishment comedy have been missed in the past.

For example there was one in the final days of their original plan, when their sense of timing and weight of measures required was still at its most absurd. Of March 12th Whitty said in the press conference that the contain phase was over and the government is moving on to the delay phase. The delay phase being something that was in the generic template pandemic response plans, but in this case the delay turned out to be a grotesque delay in actually taking the right action or even in realising what stage of the epidemic we had reached.

And much more recently the rule of six. Who knew that there were actually multiple rules of 6, including that it often takes 6 days or more between the press first being given clues about the new measures and the measures actually coming into effect. And that it usually takes less than 6 days after the measures are introduced for them to realise that those measures werent enough. Lets see if they can hit the jackpot by ensuring that the current plan is superseded six times before they settle on something actually appropriate to the situation.

I do expect some policy of substance to fall out of Johnsons mouth this week. But I also expect it to be something of a weak fudge featuring some really crappy balancing between competing interests. Little faith in the flakey fakers circuit breaker. And its likely to make the 'go to work, we will curtail the rest of your lives including family life to compensate for the effect of workplaces on the virus' even more stark and obvious.

They might go a bit further than I fear they will, especially if the angle that if you go in harder you can keep it shorter gains ground in establishment circles.

 

[StoneRoad]

I doubt he reads urban, to be honest.

No, I don't expect he does --- but one of DC's minion's might, as in keeping up with "social media" ...

 

[two sheds]

You'd have thought the government would be studying how to support people working from home to do the actual work - not really sure what but things like coordinated on-line training for home working, grants for equipment, help with child minding and things.

 

[Cid]

<has a rummage in the back of the thread> Ah...

And the problem is that if you refuse to countenance an unpalatable idea, you don’t plan for it. Then when the situation is forced upon you, you have no option but whatever hurried reaction you can scrape together in a rush.

Universities decided months ago that they would be doing online lectures next year and so they have been able to spend the summer creating those materials. Schools, by predetermining there was no way they would be doing anything but returning in September, now find themselves screwed if this isn’t possible.

I liked this post back in August, and I think it's of particular relevance again now, but with regard to how this government doesn't seem to have used any of the intervening time effectively. Get used to the idea rates are going down regardless, and that things will be back to normal, and you're stuck on that track. Be half-arsed with test and trace, don't develop strategies to make WFH more effective, support those for whom it's more difficult etc, because that would mean an admission that the strategy for getting the economy back on track may not work. It's just a bit baffling that the entire government appears to function like the mind of a mildly incompetent mid-level manager.

 

[maomao]

Have the government even changed their position on wfh yet anyway? Two weeks ago we were all being told to stop being silly and go back to work.

 

[Cid]

Have the government even changed their position on wfh yet anyway? Two weeks ago we were all being told to stop being silly and go back to work.

Doesn't look like it...

Most workplaces have re-opened. If your workplace is open, you can return to work but your employer must make arrangements for you to work safely.

 

[two sheds]

<has a rummage in the back of the thread> Ah...



I liked this post back in August, and I think it's of particular relevance again now, but with regard to how this government doesn't seem to have used any of the intervening time effectively. Get used to the idea rates are going down regardless, and that things will be back to normal, and you're stuck on that track. Be half-arsed with test and trace, don't develop strategies to make WFH more effective, support those for whom it's more difficult etc, because that would mean an admission that the strategy for getting the economy back on track may not work. It's just a bit baffling that the entire government appears to function like the mind of a mildly incompetent mid-level manager.

yep that was what I was trying to say but much less effectively.

 

[Mation]

The alert system chart was not very well done in the first place, and it was crafted with the situation of that particular moment in mind. A period that was all about the lack of plans for dealing with the relaxation of measures post first wave peak.

This problem is especially prominent in the action column for level 4. The wording 'Current social distancing measures and restrictions' is wording of its time, reflecting the measures that were in place when the chart was written, at a time when they were looking forward to us gradually moving down the levels, not going back in the other direction.

Otherwise, if the chart wording is taken literally, restrictions arent reintroduced until level 5, even if 'current' restrictions up till that moment were very weak. And one of the big lessons about a level 5 situation is that you have to act before you get to that situation, otherwise only the strongest full lockdown measures are left as a viable response.

Another issue is how to tell exactly when its appropriate to say we are at level 5 rather than level 4. Because the description of level 5 makes no mention of how large, imminent and unavoidable the 'risk of healthcare services being overwhelmed' needs to be. For example it is not necessary to wait till healthcare services are about to be overwhelmed before judging that this risk is very real. And that matters right about now since the likes of Whitty will already have been able to warn the government that the current estimate for R means the current trajectory will lead to the NHS being overwhelmed later this year.

I think the wording for level 4 was deliberate. It means they don't have to do anything specific or otherwise be shown to be ignoring their own system, because they haven't said what level 4 requires.

 

[elbows]

Well its certainly true that the entire thing chart is incredibly vague. I would generally recommend that people ignore it completely and stick to more concrete stats etc. Its about as useful as the original template pandemic plan phases (contain, delay, mitigate).

 

[Ax^]

Can we get Boris to start wondering around hospital shaking hands again

 

[two sheds]

if he comes down to Royal Cornwall I'll happily shake his throat

 

[Mation]

Well its certainly true that the entire thing chart is incredibly vague. I would generally recommend that people ignore it completely and stick to more concrete stats etc. Its about as useful as the original template pandemic plan phases (contain, delay, mitigate).

Oh, I don't think anyone here is taking it seriously. More wondering whether they even remembered they'd created an alert level thing. To which the answer is clearly no.

 

[elbows]

Oh, I don't think anyone here is taking it seriously. More wondering whether they even remembered they'd created an alert level thing. To which the answer is clearly no.

They are stuck at blurt level 5 on the absurdometer.

 

[Steel Icarus]

Oh, I don't think anyone here is taking it seriously. More wondering whether they even remembered they'd created an alert level thing. To which the answer is clearly no.

Yeah, I'm paying it no mind but it was clearly another one of those temporary shiny things this gov loves to set and forget

 

[elbows]

At least they are working to add a level 6 to the blurt scale. Via Operation Moonshout. Using the latest technology, page the orifice, cee-no-fax.

 

[Maltin]

<has a rummage in the back of the thread> Ah...



I liked this post back in August, and I think it's of particular relevance again now, but with regard to how this government doesn't seem to have used any of the intervening time effectively. Get used to the idea rates are going down regardless, and that things will be back to normal, and you're stuck on that track. Be half-arsed with test and trace, don't develop strategies to make WFH more effective, support those for whom it's more difficult etc, because that would mean an admission that the strategy for getting the economy back on track may not work. It's just a bit baffling that the entire government appears to function like the mind of a mildly incompetent mid-level manager.

This is one of the areas that I struggle with in the responses that some have to living with a pandemic. The fact that some areas/people blithely seem to think that things can carry on generally as normal. Such as the schools not taking advantage of the summer months and only opening recently at 100% capacity. Like the football leagues scheduling a full football season without any apparent thought to possible future delays. I don’t like the phrase “new normal” but to think that things can just carry on as before with what is likely to come in the future seems perverse to me.

 

[cupid_stunt]

At least they are working to add a level 6 to the blurt scale. Via Operation Moonshout. Using the latest technology, page the orifice, cee-no-fax.

Moonshot is just on Johnson's wish list...

Dear Santa,

I want 10 million tests a day.
I want thousands of covid marshals.
I want the moon on a stick.
Etc. etc.

Sadly Santa will not be delivering, he'll be self isolating having failed to get a test.

 

[quimcunx]

My understanding is that unis have to open up campuses and give classes in person or lose funding.

 

[killer b]

And its likely to make the 'go to work, we will curtail the rest of your lives including family life to compensate for the effect of workplaces on the virus' even more stark and obvious.

Problem with this is that people won't accept it isn't it? They won't accept curtailing of family life if there isn't a similar curtailing of commerce and work etc.

I think that's the big problem with closing down some parts of society in order to allow other parts to remain open: there's a fairness (perceived at least) to a blanket lockdown, and people are more likely to observe it. But it feels both unfair and ridiculous that you can't see your family when the pub round the corner is still open, and people are much, much more likely to just ignore it.

 

[Raheem]

My understanding is that unis have to open up campuses and give classes in person or lose funding.

Expect that will be modified in the near future to just "lose funding".

 

[elbows]

It's just a bit baffling that the entire government appears to function like the mind of a mildly incompetent mid-level manager.

I'm usually baffled as to why people are baffled by that to be honest.

Where are all the great examples from any period in either recent decades or stretching much further back than that, that would give us cause to think that establishment decisions would be better than the farcical mediocrity we have seen? Maybe some can be found, but surely they are the exception rather than the norm for this country?

Matters of life and death only amplify the absurdity rather than automatically causing the establishment to rise to the challenge. So sadly its not surprising that a pandemic response may resemble the response of generals in war in a way, half-arsing people to their deaths.

 

[LDC]

Problem with this is that people won't accept it isn't it? They won't accept curtailing of family life if there isn't a similar curtailing of commerce and work etc.

I think that's the big problem with closing down some parts of society in order to allow other parts to remain open: there's a fairness (perceived at least) to a blanket lockdown, and people are more likely to observe it. But it feels both unfair and ridiculous that you can't see your family when the pub round the corner is still open, and people are much, much more likely to just ignore it.

I think that is a very pertinent issue at the heart of the problem they face when 'balancing' restrictions. They might make sense infection wise, and maybe economically, but they don't in people's minds and that's key. (Obviously better communication could help...). Add in the conspiracy nonsense and general skepticism and mis-trust of the government/authority and there's a huge problem.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Oh, FFS.

Shoppers are "frustrated" as long queues return to supermarkets as fears of a second national lockdown mount.

Empty shelves and long queues can be seen at supermarkets in Yorkshire and other areas of the country as customers stock up on essentials such as toilet roll, medicine and cupboard fillers.

And, as the uncertainty over the coronavirus pandemic grows, Morrisons has brought back queues inside and outside of its stores due to the rising number of cases across the UK.

LINK

The supermarkets aren't going to close, any shortages will be down to fucking idiots, being fucking idiots!

 

[Cloo]

I think that is a very pertinent issue at the heart of the problem they face when 'balancing' restrictions. They might make sense infection wise, and maybe economically, but they don't in people's minds and that's key. (Obviously better communication could help...). Add in the conspiracy nonsense and general skepticism and mis-trust of the government/authority and there's a huge problem.

Yes, as I've said, if they'd just been clear and said 'This policy is because we need to control non-essential and non-economic activities to support both infection control and the economy'... but not saying this upfront and their evasiveness and incompetence in general means people, understandably, will just go around saying 'Huh, so you can only meet where there's a till '

 

[sheothebudworths]

I think that is a very pertinent issue at the heart of the problem they face when 'balancing' restrictions. They might make sense infection wise, and maybe economically, but they don't in people's minds and that's key. (Obviously better communication could help...). Add in the conspiracy nonsense and general skepticism and mis-trust of the government/authority and there's a huge problem.

I lol'd (in a despairing kind of way) at this Matt Hancock, could you honestly think of no one better to run test and trace? | Marina Hyde

Along with the stuff about Harding, and Johnson's apparent total bafflement on being questioned, later, about the figures he gave for his BATSHIT Moonshot 'plan', there's this -

Yet again, the overriding impression is of a government run by men for whom the domestic sphere is a mystery they have no wish to get to the bottom of. One of them driving hundreds of miles to Durham – just in case he got ill and still had to do his own childcare – sounds, to the other guys, like a totally reasonable thing to have done. Meanwhile the big boss fails to be meaningfully involved in the lives of between 17% and 29% of his children (awaiting full data). If you can be persuaded it’s normal to drive a 60-mile round trip with a child in the car to test your eyesight, then naturally you believe parents should think it fine to stick a five-year-old in their own vehicle and travel 400 miles to obtain what’s necessary to get the child back to school and them back to work.

Either way, of course a government run by weirdo elitists didn’t reflexively foresee that September – back to school, back to offices – was going to mean a huge surge in testing demand. This is the trouble when “hardworking families” is merely a demographic you wish to appeal to, as opposed to who you are. Real-life “hardworking families” could have told you in a heartbeat that September was the main event.

 

[killer b]

(Obviously better communication could help...).

I'm not actually sure about that. Throughout this process - regardless of how well specific things have been communicated - it strikes me that there has been a very large number of people who work really hard not to understand the reasoning behind the various restrictions. They'd still be at it whatever.

 

[Cid]

I'm usually baffled as to why people are baffled by that to be honest.

Where are all the great examples from any period in either recent decades or stretching much further back than that, that would give us cause to think that establishment decisions would be better than the farcical mediocrity we have seen? Maybe some can be found, but surely they are the exception rather than the norm for this country?

Matters of life and death only amplify the absurdity rather than automatically causing the establishment to rise to the challenge. So sadly its not surprising that a pandemic response may resemble the response of generals in war in a way, half-arsing people to their deaths.

The bafflement was more a rhetorical device. But it is striking just how bad this country had been in is response, even compared to places with similar economic and political ideologies.

 

[LDC]

I'm not actually sure about that. Throughout this process - regardless of how well specific things have been communicated - it strikes me that there has been a very large number of people who work really hard not to understand the reasoning behind the various restrictions. They'd still be at it whatever.

Yeah, I kind of agree in part, and I think people have been looking to get confused sometimes to justify non-compliance or make a political point. Also it's exposed a shockingly low level of health literacy among (some of) the UK's population.