Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[sojourner]

My home town was 111.6 out of 100,000, 2 days ago. Our small area alone has doubled cases in 5 days, and we also had the most deaths in the town. It is massively working class, and deprived, and you're lucky to see anyone wearing a mask.

I passed a new sign pointing to a Covid test centre on my way into work, so rang the council to ask if it was walk-in or if you had to book. 40 minutes of being on hold later, I was told that they don't know, and that they didn't even know it was there Wtf?!

 

[TopCat]

What's the worst hotspot in the UK?

 

[quimcunx]

There are sooo many things the govt could be doing to support all areas* of society in keeping covid in check but arent and would probably be cheaper than another full lockdown.

*NHS local govt individuals airports businesses schools universities etc.

Have none of them ever heard that a stitch in time saves nine.

 

[Wilf]

Just been told we can’t wear masks at work anymore for reasons of access, so we have to wear visors instead. I don’t feel safe with just a visor. Are they allowed to do this?

Yeah, we've been told we can wear a visor but not mask when teaching (University). However, whilst students have to wear masks in communal areas, they don't in class. Whilst this is a pile of shite, I do have to pull myself up and remember shopworkers and others have been facing this for months. But still, a pile of shite is indeed a layered structure of ordure. My concern is for students with vulnerabilities or vulnerable relatives, sat in classrooms with others who refuse to wear masks or are even anti mask/vaccine conspiraloons.

 

[quimcunx]

Yeah, we've been told we can wear a visor but not mask when teaching (University). However, whilst students have to wear masks in communal areas, they don't in class. Whilst this is a pile of shite, I do have to pull myself up and remember shopworkers and others have been facing this for months. But still, a pile of shite is indeed a layered structure of ordure. My concern is for students with vulnerabilities or vulnerable relatives, sat in classrooms with others who refuse to wear masks or are even anti mask/vaccine conspiraloons.

It's also worth remembering that the fewer risks you and I take the lower the risk for shop workers.

 

[Teaboy]

I'm in Preston (Number 4 in the ranking whooo) and WFH isn't really a thing here anymore if the morning traffic is anything to go by. We're all back in the office at work (although not through necessity - everyone wanted to come back)

I was talking to my brother who lives in a London commuter town in the south east this morning and half the kids in his kid's class are still off, which suggests a much more cautious approach round there (and parents still at home...)

Are these jobs that can and indeed were being done from home? It would be more than a bit annoying if transmissions have occurred in offices where people could have wfh. I appreciate its not suitable for all jobs and all people.

I do think fear of the London public transport system is playing a big roll down here because by all accounts the offices are all still empty.

 

[TopCat]

Apparently my home Borough Lewisham has very high death rates.
G4S are running a testing centre set up in Catford. Catford is a big shouty angry car park again today.
Here is the Newshopper take on it.

Hundreds turned away from Catford coronavirus test centre in QR code 'chaos'

More than 100 people who booked a coronavirus test in Catford faced long queues before being turned away as they were not sent a required QR code.

www.newsshopper.co.uk

 

[Teaboy]

have we had this clip on urban yet?

One for the covid literacy thread this one. When we get round to starting it.

 

[Roadkill]

What's the worst hotspot in the UK?

In the last week, Bolton: 171 infections per 100,000 population. That's why I picked it as an example above. In the comparator I used, Hull, there were 5 infections per 100k.

 

[prunus]

I think then you’d probably have to provide evidence that the mask provides a personal safety aspect that the visor lacks. Is that actually the case?

Actually I think it’s up to them to provide the risk assessment they’ve made that visors provide an equivalent level of protection (which, if they have more than 5 staff, they should have consulted with the staff on). This protection is not just does it protect the wearer, but is there an equivalent (sufficient) level of protection for each person from each other person, if all are wearing visors.

As it happens there is a reasonable body of evidence being amassed that masks do in fact provide protection for the wearer, not just for the others around them, in terms of reducing initial viral load on an infectious encounter; this may be part of the reason for the apparent rise in less severe and asymptomatic cases.

Disclaimer: I have to do these sodding risk assessments for my work, and given how fast the science is changing it’s an almost full-time job. Fwiw we’ve just mandated masks in the office at all times, on the back of the latest research (rather than just if you’re within 2m (but never less than 1m!) of someone else).

 

[killer b]

Are these jobs that can and indeed were being done from home? It would be more than a bit annoying if transmissions have occurred in offices where people could have wfh. I appreciate its not suitable for all jobs and all people.

yeah, they were being done from home but it was awkward and dysfunctional, and everyone was going a bit mad. It's a huge, well ventilated office and there's only 4 of us spread out across it though, I reckon it's pretty low risk.

 

[Wilf]

It's also worth remembering that the fewer risks you and I take the lower the risk for shop workers.

Yeah, absolutely, every bit of bad practice everywhere in the country impacts elsewhere. To be fair my immediate manager has been quite good reducing my own classroom teaching due to health conditions. But it's at the level of institution, bringing students back on campus/to house parties/shagging/travelling back home that takes you into extreme folly. And beyond that, it's a HE sector playing chicken, knowing it will have to revert to online teaching, but not able to do that until others do to avoid fees claims.

 

[TopCat]

Van Morrison has joined the anti mask cohort. Written songs about fascists and science crooks.
Knobhead.

 

[sojourner]

In the last week, Bolton: 171 infections per 100,000 population. That's why I picked it as an example above. In the comparator I used, Hull, there were 5 infections per 100k.

We currently have the 11th highest rate of cases in England

 

[sojourner]

Van Morrison has joined the anti mask cohort. Written songs about fascists and science crooks.
Knobhead.

Heard that on the radio this morning. The fucking idiot.

 

[Wilf]

Heard that on the radio this morning. The fucking idiot.

Astral Freaks.

 

[xenon]

e

yeah, they were being done from home but it was awkward and dysfunctional, and everyone was going a bit mad. It's a huge, well ventilated office and there's only 4 of us spread out across it though, I reckon it's pretty low risk.

Living alone does have it's up and down sides, especially during all this. But WFH I'm glad I do TBH. Full time might do my head in though.

 

[ddraig]

have we had this clip on urban yet?

Absolute dickheads

 

[elbows]

This doesn't make sense to me, and will probably drive elbows mad.



We already have twice the number of cases that France had 6 weeks ago, with similiar populations.

Coronavirus: Boris Johnson considering national restrictions on social lives to curb infections

Government figures stressed the plans being drawn up stopped short of a full national lockdown, as seen in the spring.

news.sky.com

There are limits as to how mad it can drive me because someone in the media was briefed about '6 weeks behind France' fears a while ago and I already took the piss out of that.

Not that I am totally done with the subject, I have a bit of data to mess with on this subject and will return to it once I've done that.

 

[TopCat]

There are limits as to how mad it can drive me because someone in the media was briefed about '6 weeks behind France' fears a while ago and I already took the piss out of that.

Not that I am totally done with the subject, I have a bit of data to mess with on this subject and will return to it once I've done that.

I read that Guardian article and was a bit stumped with the comparisons.

 

[elbows]

Well before I even have time to look at that stuff again, the most obvious thing wrong with 6 weeks is that the governments own slides from the 9th September press conference, which Whitty presented, included a graph where they tried to align the UK trends with the likes of France. And they moved the data by 4 weeks to do that, not 6 weeks.

I already posted the chart in question before but here it is again.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/916445/2020-09-09_COVID-19_Press_Conference_Slides111__-__Read-Only.pdf

 

[elbows]

Regarding the visors question. No they are not supposed to be sufficient that they can be used without a mask, visors are mostly to reduce the chance of infection via the eyes.

I read a SAGE paper about this in the context of hairdressers not too long ago, but had very little chance of quickly finding which of the many documents this was in. Luckily there was press coverage to make this task trivial:

Government experts warn hairdresser 'visors' aren't enough to stop coronavirus

WEARING a plastic "visor" is not enough to protect customers from coronavirus in a barber shop or a hairdressers', scientific advisors…

www.theargus.co.uk

In a meeting on July 22, the experts ruled visors alone "are unlikely to be an effective control for aerosol transmission".

The subgroup of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (SAGE) added: "There is no evidence that face shields/visors are an effective source control for either larger droplets or small aerosols.

"We recommend that guidance for UK hairdressers and barbers should be strengthened to include wearing of face coverings."

 

[two sheds]

Just been told we can’t wear masks at work anymore for reasons of access, so we have to wear visors instead. I don’t feel safe with just a visor. Are they allowed to do this?

Somewhat different situation but ...

Deaf neighbour went for a scan the other week. Her husband asked in advance if he could go in and sign for her, but the CEO (private facility being used by a lot of NHS places locally) refused. Bloke scanning had mask and visor, she had mask but because she couldn't lip read him and didn't know what was going on (once she'd had the wrong operation done because they communicate with her properly). So she panicked and asked for her husband to come in to sign for her. The scanner to his credit went and got her husband who signed for her.

When she lay down for the scan she had to take her hearing aid off and she normally attaches the mask to hearing aid so she asked whether she could take the mask off since she still had visor on, and finds it difficult to wear a mask for any length of time anyway. She didn't talk during the scan because her husband (with mask and visor) was signing for her.

Her husband wrote an e-mail afterwards suggesting how the company could improve its access for deaf patients. He received a stinking reply that patronizingly told them that there was a real problem with coronavirus and so many people had died worldwide, and blamed them for what had happened, that they and the guy scanning her had put their whole facility at risk by the husband going in with her and her taking her mask off. The CEO also said she'd held a disciplinary for the bloke doing the scanning and had effectively warned him as to future conduct.

They sent me a copy of her letter for my reaction and it made me so angry that I wasn't getting to sleep. I got up and started a suggested reply which they've now added to and improved and sent a copy to people like the RNID who it looks like are going to take it further

 

[elbows]

What's the worst hotspot in the UK?

The situation is moving beyond the point where this question is broad enough to capture the moment.

Partly because while in the past there were concerns that detecing a local outbreak and focussing a lot of testing there could distort the picture at the expense of some other locations, such concerns are likely to be magnified now by the fact that demand for tests is far outstripping supply.

I am shifting from looking at specific locations to looking at the picture by broader region instead. Graphs later, probably after todays dashboard data is out, and after I have read the weekly PHE surveillance report.

The authorities are clearly thinking more like this too, which is why we are seeing larger areas having new measures imposed on them, and why the press is full of talk about the government doing stuff on the national level.

 

[xenon]

Not like, I can't access the other smilies. Take that as good work two sheds but at the company.

 

[two sheds]

Not like, I can't access the other smilies. Take that as good work two sheds but at the company.

One of the things we pointed out was that she was blaming the three of them for a situation that came about because of their poor procedures (no mask that ties round the back, didn't provide interpreter for her), which is a failure of management. He's adding a couple that people have mentioned on this thread - speech to text and transparent masks so ta for them.

 

[elbows]

I'd like to see some people perform their own exercises with case numbers data. Because we have seen a doubling time estimate of a week mentioned in the press. So its not hard to pick a number of current daily infections, for example from the weekly ONS survey or from Zoe covid, and then double that number for every week that we dont take action. See what sort of number you end up with after 4 or 6 weeks.

Of course it isnt quite that simple because of various new regional measures, and the doubling time could increase or decrease over time, and the current estimate for it might be wrong (they certainly got it wrong in early March) but it might still be able to give people some feel for the situation and a practical refresher on exponential growth.

 

[sojourner]

Annnnd we're now an area of intervention with special measures. But not til Tuesday, so we're all absolutely fine for the weekend. Right-o.

 

[xenon]

I'd like to see some people perform their own exercises with case numbers data. Because we have seen a doubling time estimate of a week mentioned in the press. So its not hard to pick a number of current daily infections, for example from the weekly ONS survey or from Zoe covid, and then double that number for every week that we dont take action. See what sort of number you end up with after 4 or 6 weeks.

Of course it isnt quite that simple because of various new regional measures, and the doubling time could increase or decrease over time, and the current estimate for it might be wrong (they certainly got it wrong in early March) but it might still be able to give people some feel for the situation and a practical refresher on exponential growth.

Knowing a bit of binary maths helps with this. If cases of a theoretical disease something everyone was susceptible to, doubled every N days, it will effect the entire population of Earth in 33 N days...

 

[Sue]

How much credence are people giving the estimated numbers from the Zoe tracking thing? A friend (who's been doing it) says it's currently estimating 192/100k in my borough. Which sounds like a lot?