Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
Just been told we can’t wear masks at work anymore for reasons of access, so we have to wear visors instead. I don’t feel safe with just a visor. Are they allowed to do this?
Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion
- Thread starter Sasaferrato
- Start date
What are 'reasons of access'?
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
People who rely on seeing your lips move to understand what you are saying
I think that probably is the case but throughout this blame has been a useless concept (its pretty useless most of the time anyway). I think it's all about how we act as humans in groups and there is a critical mass to compliance. I think that compliance with safety measures can easily drop off if enough people are seen to be not complying and it goes the same for complying.
I'll give you an example from where I live. In my London borough compliance is really high and this has nothing to do with age, class, ethnic background or whatever. There is a very big Tesco just down the road whose customers are from all backgrounds and all walks of life. I would say mask compliance is around 98% including staff. Yet I hear stories from elsewhere in London where they are barely scraping 50%. Round here I see groups of people in the parks bigger than six but they are all sat apart like we were in April.
I think we're lucky round here that non-compliance stands out and so people kind of just fit in. That could all change though and quickly if enough people stop bothering.
That's my theory anyway.
ETA: I should add I don't think this is the sole reason by any means but it plays a role.
Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
A lot of it’s to do with money and access to wfh. The south east is fairly affluent, lots of outdoor spaces, lots of people able to work from home. It’s already gone through London so that’s less of a risk.
Now that people are “encouraged” to go back to work and restrictions lifted it’s hitting other urban areas and people who can’t just wfh.
Supine
Newt Member
i would say no and quote H&S at them personally.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
Which bit of H&S covers this?
I think then you’d probably have to provide evidence that the mask provides a personal safety aspect that the visor lacks. Is that actually the case?
WFH definitely plays some part, in that a lot of service-sector jobs can be done from home whereas industrial ones usually can't. As you say, that might be why much of the south-east has done okay. However, using the two examples I stuck up above, both Bolton and Hull are pretty industrial and yet the situation in the two cities is very different.
I think another factor may well be connectivity. Hull's geographical isolation has probably worked in its favour, whereas Bolton is part of a larger conurbation. But again, that doesn't work in every case because London is by far the best connected city in the country and yet it's doing alright atm.
Population density probably has some influence, just because more people in close proximity = easier transmission. I'm sure, though, that if you dig around the figures you could find some dense cities (London springs to mind) doing fine and some pretty rural areas (Cumbria, perhaps) that aren't.
Poverty is another obvious influence, in that with that comes overcrowding, employers who don't give a shit, and so on. That seems partly to have driven the Leicester spike a few weeks ago. But again, Hull is the poorest large city in the UK, so not an explanation in itself.
In the end there's a big array of socioeconomic, geographical and other factors at play, and we're nowhere near understanding how they interact with one another.
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teuchter
je suis teuchter
How do you know it has nothing to do with any of those things?
StoneRoad
heckling from the back!
Your own safety is your responsibility ...
Possible solution; Wear mask under visor, and offer to take mask off for short interactions on request by user needing to lip read.
Because like a lot of London there are all backgrounds here. Its cheek by jowl living. Also putting it down to just one borough is wrong because I see the same in the borough right next to us as well.
Surely there is a phone app (speech to text) that can show (as text) what you are saying?
I saw an article a while back from an ambulance medic who was using this format to communicate with people who had hearing issues. He just held his phone up and asked them questions, was very good.
wtfftw
melting like a toastie
face masks with a clear panel?
Masks with a clear panel for lipreading | Ideas For Ears
A handy list of the masks available to allow lipreading by having a clear panel so that people's mouths (or full face) can be seen.
mentioned by action for hearing loss as an option. Face coverings: how the regulations apply to you - Action on Hearing Loss
edit: also found instructions to make one (figure that's not for you Orang Utan but someone with appropriate skills might) How to Make An Accessible, Deaf-Friendly Face Mask | Hearing, Speech & Deaf Center
This also ^face masks with a clear panel?
Masks with a clear panel for lipreading | Ideas For Ears
A handy list of the masks available to allow lipreading by having a clear panel so that people's mouths (or full face) can be seen.www.ideasforears.org.uk
mentioned by action for hearing loss as an option. Face coverings: how the regulations apply to you - Action on Hearing Loss
Get your employer to buy these (and a phone 'speech to text' solution) because it will be cheaper and better than sick employees and infected clients.
I'm in Preston (Number 4 in the ranking whooo) and WFH isn't really a thing here anymore if the morning traffic is anything to go by. We're all back in the office at work (although not through necessity - everyone wanted to come back)
I was talking to my brother who lives in a London commuter town in the south east this morning and half the kids in his kid's class are still off, which suggests a much more cautious approach round there (and parents still at home...)
crossthebreeze
Well-Known Member
Relevant guidelines
Obviously access is an issue, but surely the solution is either clear masks (provided by employer) or being willing to remove mask (and wear visor) when someone requests it for lipreading purposes, not risking employee and public health.
From Shops and branches - Working safely during coronavirus (COVID-19) - Guidance - GOV.UK
Obviously access is an issue, but surely the solution is either clear masks (provided by employer) or being willing to remove mask (and wear visor) when someone requests it for lipreading purposes, not risking employee and public health.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
Not allowed mobiles at work (though everyone ignores this)
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
Watch this space!
Doodler
You're quite nice when you smile
A study I read recently claimed that differences in age structure accounted for around 90% of the differences in infection fatality rate between European nations. There are certainly very significant age structure differences in London at the council ward level and probably at borough level too. Such contrasts must exist elsewhere in the UK.
It’sa fair point but in this instance we’re talking about infection rates themselves rather than fatalities
Non surgical masks are for the safety of others though.
I think you can get transparent ones that don't fog up to aid lip readers.
Maybe ask them to get some of those OU?
Oh yes, age structures will definitely come into it too, not just in terms of deaths but also infections. To put it crudely, if there's a local outbreak driven by workplace transmissions that isn't going to hit the retired in the first instance, although that's not to say that they won't pick it up elsewhere further down the line. Conversely, there has been a spike amongst younger people, who probably are more willing to take risks - not because they're stupid, irresponsible or whatever else the Daily Express like to call them, but because they're less at risk, relatively mobile, and because in some cases they've no alternative.
cupid_stunt
Chief seagull hater & farmerbarleymow's nemesis.
This doesn't make sense to me, and will probably drive elbows mad.
We already have twice the number of cases that France had 6 weeks ago, with similiar populations.
news.sky.com
We already have twice the number of cases that France had 6 weeks ago, with similiar populations.
Coronavirus: Boris Johnson considering national restrictions on social lives to curb infections
Government figures stressed the plans being drawn up stopped short of a full national lockdown, as seen in the spring.
Just checked Bristol's score. Relieved to see it's down to 11 / 100K. There are certainly peple going out from what I've seen. Though I've not been and would avoid any where busy in doors. It's a mixed city of course, not all middle class new media jobs done from home. Large call centres and stuff but not much factory / industrial work in the city itself. Students not back yet.
mr steev
magic thought wizard
Our local rag is reporting that Wolverhampton will be going into lockdown next Tuesday - yet no confirmation from the council or government, no mention in the national press and as far as I can tell we are not even on the watchlist. I'm sure we are in for further restrictions, but this is just down right lying and scaremongering surely?
www.expressandstar.com
eta: just noticed the caveat of 'unless cases stop rising'... that wasn't on the article when I first read it this morning, nor is it on the article on their facebook page
Covid crisis: Wolverhampton local lockdown measures confirmed to start next week
Wolverhampton is set to be plunged into local lockdown next week – with even stricter measures on the horizon unless Covid cases start to fall.
eta: just noticed the caveat of 'unless cases stop rising'... that wasn't on the article when I first read it this morning, nor is it on the article on their facebook page
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StoneRoad
heckling from the back!
Dreading the students getting back into university towns.
I foresee that producing another spike in CV cases, before the current batch have died down.
People who are currently out and about, so therefore causing & taking risks, need to realise that the virus is still as infectious as before the March lockdown. They need to take all the proper precautions.
I quite like the "Hands, Face, Space" mantra - the radio ads are very much to that point.
Personally, my thoughts are that we can have work, or schools, or pubs, but not all three at once, at least until the majority of vaccinations are done.
Currently, I'm in an area covered by the Tyne & Wear / Northumberland / Durham restrictions.
The next two / three weeks will need careful behaviours ...
I foresee that producing another spike in CV cases, before the current batch have died down.
People who are currently out and about, so therefore causing & taking risks, need to realise that the virus is still as infectious as before the March lockdown. They need to take all the proper precautions.
I quite like the "Hands, Face, Space" mantra - the radio ads are very much to that point.
Personally, my thoughts are that we can have work, or schools, or pubs, but not all three at once, at least until the majority of vaccinations are done.
Currently, I'm in an area covered by the Tyne & Wear / Northumberland / Durham restrictions.
The next two / three weeks will need careful behaviours ...
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