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Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

Yup, charge1p for washing a glass. Problem solved.
The ambiguity of the new rules makes everything possible and impossible at the same time. It's absolutely deliberate, so Johnson can say "yebbut I told you not to" when it all goes shit shaped.
There’s a plan. The cleaner earns far more per hour than I do in a supermarket, but she also has the disadvantages of being self-employed!

All the decent ones I could find were hideously expensive or could deliver in July. Read the reviews carefully if you do buy some, I’ve seen some shockers.
Really wish I could get some more FFP3 from my friend but they can’t spare them understandably.
I’d like a couple of washable ones with filters.

CommunityMasks4NHS is a local initiative with volunteers sewing fabric masks with tied elastic ear loops,muslin lining with a pocket for a disposable filter (tissue, or a coffee paper filter). No choice as to fabric but you can specify gender neutral! They suggest a donation of £4 per mask through their JustGiving page, all funds go to the NHS. I collected mine as they’re close to home but they will post. They have a Facebook page.
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Still on washable masks, there are plenty of YouTube tutorials on making no-sew masks from socks or t shirts!
 
A national survey in Spain says about 2m of their 47m population have been infected. And they've had 30,700 excess deaths. Ergo a mortality rate of about 1.5%. It's a bit back-of-an-envelope but I think it might be the most reliable mortality figure I've seen. If you assume the same mortality rate here and you plug in our excess deaths figure of 50,900, you get a UK infected total of 3.4m, or 5% of our 68m population.

Eta: one big caveat is that the test used in Spain may not be accurate.

Spanish herd immunity is still far off, study finds. Just 5 per cent of Spaniards have been infected by coronavirus and “herd immunity” against the pandemic is a much more distant prospect than some had hoped, a government-backed report indicated on Wednesday. Preliminary findings in a high-profile national survey, based on antibody tests, suggested about 2m of Spain’s 47m inhabitants have contracted the virus, although infection rates in Madrid and the surrounding provinces in the centre of the country were much higher, at 10-14 per cent. Salvador Illa, Spain’s health minister, said the findings confirmed the government’s expectations and its cautious, staggered phase-out of the country’s tough two-month lockdown. However, the results, based on tests on more than 60,000 people across the country, are particularly significant because of the widespread hope that a large number of people in nations such as Spain are at least temporarily immune to the virus because they have contracted it without being tested or perhaps even displaying symptoms. If a sufficiently big proportion of the population was immune to the virus — about 60 per cent — a country as a whole could develop “herd immunity” and so be relatively protected against a coronavirus second wave, which is widely feared in the autumn if not before. Spain has been one of the countries worst-hit by the pandemic, with over 27,000 documented deaths and an official tally of more than 228,000 cases. But Mr Illa said the results of the survey showed “there is no herd immunity”. The study will continue with two further rounds of tests of its participants. It found infection rates were much lower among children, and that 26 per cent of those people who had been infected had been asymptomatic. Infection rates for men and women were roughly the same. The survey’s findings contrasted with an influential report by Imperial College that estimated a mean average of 15 per cent of Spaniards — and perhaps as much as 41 per cent — had been infected as of March 28. However, it was in line with research last week by the Italian Institute for International Political Studies that put the Spanish infection rate at 4.9 per cent. The Institute’s research, based on figures from European governments, indicated Belgium has the highest percentage of citizens with some degree of potential immunity in Europe, with 6.4 per cent, while the figure was 4.4 per cent for Italy, 3.8 per cent for the UK and only 0.7 per cent in Germany. The World Health Organisation’s chief scientist on Wednesday said there was “still a long way to go” for herd immunity. Soumya Swaminathan told the FT’s Global Boardroom digital conference that rates higher than 10-20 per cent had not been observed anywhere in the world, with New York City probably representing the highest to date with 20 per cent. She added: “A vaccine is the best way to achieve quick herd immunity . . . without paying the price of [a large number of] deaths — which you would have to accept if you would go for a more natural herd immunity approach.”

 
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"architects for social housing" is really just two people - Simon Elmer and Geraldine Dening.
I used to follow them/him via a (closed) facebook group. Over time it moved from mainly just stuff (I thought largely pretty good) about social housing to other things, including constant attack on the labour party.
Simon Elmer writes nearly all the political essays - Geraldine Dening seems mainly to stick to the directly housing-related stuff.
A year or so back Simon Elmer started threatening to delete everyone from the group if they didn't state they agreed with certain things and commit to certain actions, and seemed paranoid that it was being infiltrated by labour party stooges. There seemed to be some crossover with Brexit party types in the comments being posted.
Eventually, he did delete everyone. Since then, I've not followed them.
It's a shame because I thought they did some really good, detailed stuff on social housing. Then it went a bit weird, and people like me no longer are in touch with what they do, and now start to doubt some of the housing work that seemed pretty grounded and pragmatic.


Just checked my FB and Im not on the ASH page any more. Wondered why it went quiet on the ASH FB. It now has just 33 people who can see the posts.

I agree with what you say. Its worse than Labour party stooges. The tone of later articles was anyone who admiited voting Labour was an enemy.

It spilled over into influencing some community groups. The hatred of the Labour party and anyone who admitted to vote for them was divisive imo.
 
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This lot seem to be going all libertarian


As is usual with ASH Simon is right to raise issues about civil liberties - its that one has to wade through a lot of contrarian stuff to get to it.

There is the potential in the Covid times for governments / police to bring in measures that are a long term infringement of peoples right to privacy and freedom to go about daily life without undue interferance from the State.

I thought the lockdown would be a few months and then end. Now looks like the virus is going to be around for a while and social distancing is going to be the new normal. Even when lockdown is loosened. So what kind of changed State emerges out of the pandemic and its relationship with citizens is an issue imo.
 
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The UK has approved use of the antibody test developed by Roche, which was recently approved by the US.

According to experts at the Porton Down, it has a 100% accuracy rate.

 
The issue with schools is despite the NEU's petition and headteachers not being in agreement, there are already plans being made. I attended a meeting yesterday on getting students back into school and while there was a strong emphasis on risk assessment, the ball seemed to be rolling.
My area has a high number of ethnic minorities and i think there will be a lot of hesitation in sending children back; my school has already lost two parents to the virus.
 
The UK has approved use of the antibody test developed by Roche, which was recently approved by the US.

According to experts at the Porton Down, it has a 100% accuracy rate.


100% specificity rate which I think is the return for people who have had it. Iirc from last week they were claiming that, plus 99.8% for the other one which identifies those who haven't. So I don't think '100% accurate' is 100% accurate.
 
Indeed, if 5% of the population have had the disease and the test gives a 0.2% chance of returning a false positive, that means the test is currently about 96% accurate in the way that the average layperson would understand the idea of “accurate”.

ETA: I suppose in addition, if it tells you that you HAVEN’T had it, that is 100%.
 
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Yet more 'media can't understand simple science/maths' shocker. That's an atrocious headline.

I still think that's a very useful test, mind.

Now all we need to do is work out exactly what having those antibodies means wrt immunity. ;)
 
A national survey in Spain says about 2m of their 47m population have been infected. And they've had 30,700 excess deaths. Ergo a mortality rate of about 1.5%. It's a bit back-of-an-envelope but I think it might be the most reliable mortality figure I've seen. If you assume the same mortality rate here and you plug in our excess deaths figure of 50,900, you get a UK infected total of 3.4m, or 5% of our 68m population.

Eta: one big caveat is that the test used in Spain may not be accurate.




I suppose we’ll have to wait for more info on sampling and tests, but if that’s right it looks very very bad.

<examines self for negativity bias>

Still looks bad. I mean that would be an IFR > 1%. iirc even the (somewhat) less accurate serology tests are useful if you’re looking at a population level. It’s not in line with the New York study, but that had a much weaker sampling method and much smaller sample size.

Well, we’ll see.
 
The Roche Anti-SARS-CoV-2 electrochemiluminescence immunoassay is an IgG lab test with 99.81% (99.65-99.91% @95%CI) specificity - this is effectively the likelihood of not returning a false positive ie the chance of this not flagging an antibody associated with a different pathogen.

The sensitivity of the test varies with time from viral RNA PCR confirmation, reaching 100% (88.1-100% @95%CI) after 2 weeks - ie likelihood that this is not a false negative.
 
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There are some biases in the methodology that makes me think 1.5% would be an upper bound rather than the best estimate of the mortality rate. It actually makes me think the often mentioned 0.8%-1.0% sounds about right
For comparison, MRC nowcasting for the UK currently estimates IFR as being 0.6% (0.5-0.8% @95%CI).
 
With this antibody test the importance from a healthcare and policy perspective is clearly massive. On the personal level in the immediate I'm wondering whether they have a practical use? We talked about this at the start of the lockdown and how things like immunity passports have the potential to create an unpleasant 2 tier situation in the country.
 
With this antibody test the importance from a healthcare and policy perspective is clearly massive. On the personal level in the immediate I'm wondering whether they have a practical use? We talked about this at the start of the lockdown and how things like immunity passports have the potential to create an unpleasant 2 tier situation in the country.

You can buy them commercially online (won't post the link here though) and a couple of friends are thinking of getting it done (costs about £100), more for curiosity really as they're all HCPs that have had plenty of contact with CV+ patients but they've had no (or very mild non-specific) symptoms. Do think that a positive IgG test would almost inevitably make me less careful even with the best intentions.
 
You can buy them commercially online (won't post the link here though) and a couple of friends are thinking of getting it done (costs about £100), more for curiosity really as they're all HCPs that have had plenty of contact with CV+ patients but they've had no (or very mild non-specific) symptoms. Do think that a positive IgG test would almost inevitably make me less careful even with the best intentions.

Are the online ones the Roche ones that the government has just approved? It seems like there are a lot of different ones out there presumably all with differing levels of accuracy.

With regards to personal interest in knowing whether you've had it, I agree. I'm pretty convinced I've had it and am genuinely intrigued but as you say I'm probably already overconfident enough as it is.
 
Are the online ones the Roche ones that the government has just approved? It seems like there are a lot of different ones out there presumably all with differing levels of accuracy.

With regards to personal interest in knowing whether you've had it, I agree. I'm pretty convinced I've had it and am genuinely intrigued but as you say I'm probably already overconfident enough as it is.

I did wonder that too, but not sure, I can't quite make out the logo on the box image online. I suspect not from the stuff I've read though.
 
With this antibody test the importance from a healthcare and policy perspective is clearly massive. On the personal level in the immediate I'm wondering whether they have a practical use? We talked about this at the start of the lockdown and how things like immunity passports have the potential to create an unpleasant 2 tier situation in the country.
Well first we need to know whether antibody = immunity, and if so, for how long. Will depend on some unknowables as well, such as how the virus itself evolves over time.

But second, as pointed out, around four people out of every 100 given an immunity passport on the basis of this test would actually not be immune. You'd have to run all the positives through another round of testing to give a better level of confidence. Plus, if it is only around 5 per cent of the population, that's not really much use practically speaking in terms of such people being allowed to do stuff the rest can't. I guess it could mean international travel for a small minority, not the rest?

I think it's a non-starter tbh.
 
Very sad:

Station ticket office worker dies with Covid-19 after being spat at

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The Late Belly Mujinga

Anyone who saw Ms Mujinga being spat on at London's Victoria Station on 22 March 2020 can contact British Transport Police by texting 61016 or calling 0800 40 50 40 quoting reference 359 of 11/05/20.

More here:

Cops weren’t told about coronavirus spit attack on station worker for 7 weeks despite her ‘urging bosses to call police’

‘We are vulnerable and scared’, say colleagues of tragic Belly Mujinga

 
Why the fuck didn't GTR report the assault to the cops at the time?

Even without C-19, such assaults should be reported.

Mind you, thinking about it, why didn't she report it herself?
 
The Thought that she wouldn’t be believed.
She probably expected to be believed, she probably didn't expect that much would happen. It's a very sad reflection on our society that such behaviour has been become 'normalised'
People in public facing jobs tend to get abuse from assholes on a frequent basis. Sadly I can't imagine there is much chance of them finding this cunt and even then proving that he actually had it and gave it to her is effectively impossible. We can only hope that karma has succeeded where the justice system will not.
 
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