Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[Teaboy]

Honestly not piling in Teaboy but where have you read that?

"Immunity passports" in the context of COVID-19

Scientific Brief

www.who.int

April 24, 2020


Maybe 2hats or elbows can put my fears to rest?

I will admit it's been in general press but there has also some things that have been written on here. But you're quite right that I can't say anything for certain, I'm just being optimistic from what I've read and from history which tells us that often exposure to viruses can lead to a level of immunity. I know this is all new though.

 

[Teaboy]

1. Anyone who has been exposed to and recovered from SARS-CoV-2 can still transfer fomites to naive hosts, just as can those who have not yet been infected.

2. Pretty much every person returning to work who has previously been exposed to SARS-CoV-2 and developed moderate to mild symptoms, or was asymptomatic, will have had a low to negligible immune response (evidence thus far suggests). Those persons quite likely will be more able to subsequently, respiratorily, transmit SARS-Cov-2 (and increasingly so with degree of absence of symptoms).

Those who developed a strong immune response are likely to have been in the hospitalised/ICU cohort so aren't likely to be joining the hordes of returning commuters any time soon.

Time is required for more research.

That's fascinating. So people who have had it are maybe more likely to pass it on?

 

[MrSki]

So 50000 people have died. I remember as a kid going to Highbury that was supposed to be 38000 Thinking in these terms is fucking scary. Stay safe everyone.

 

[2hats]

That's fascinating. So people who have had it are maybe more likely to pass it on?

No. That's not what I wrote.

People who have have been infected with mild or no symptoms are probably more likely to transmit it (for some window of time) respiratorily than those with more severe episodes. Everyone can play a role in transporting fomites.

 

[Teaboy]

No. That's not what I wrote.

People who have have been infected with mild or no symptoms are probably more likely to transmit it (for some window of time) respiratorily than those with more severe episodes. Everyone can play a role in transporting fomites.

Thanks.

 

[farmerbarleymow]

The North, especially the North West could probably do with more attention. Not that I really know what to say to add to this article at the moment:

Exclusive: Virus persisting at higher rate in north of England

Coronavirus spread appears to be persisting at a higher rate in parts of the north of England - prompting warnings that the mortality gap between those more and less deprived will get bigger.

www.hsj.co.uk

I spotted that when the NW seemed to move into first place - worrying given the levels of deprivation in cities and towns in the region.

 

[Epona]

I'm not sure we should do anything much to help out airlines.If there are fewer flights in the future that's a good thing. Virgin or whoever might go bust but the aeroplanes airports pilots etc will still exist in 2021. And there will still be lots of rich people. If there is a need and desire for air travel then some plucky wealth creators will surely see the opportunity in buying bargain jets.

it was more a for instance and I agree not a particularly good example. Was thinking along the lines that if Branson and the like are going to be getting a shitload of taxpayer money then maybe the taxpayer ought to own his fucking shit...

 

[BCBlues]

The 744 'excess deaths' in and around Birmingham not linked to virus The 744 'excess deaths' in and around Birmingham not linked to virus

Some stats here on deaths in Brum &The Black Country for April, not directly Covid 19 related, but the article looks into the fact that the sheer force of the pandemic caused other issues that might have contributed to the deaths. Ill health related to lack of exercise, not necessarily going down the gym but stuff like not going round your mates for a walk or daily to your local shop. Smoking and Drinking more, stress related or just boredom. Anxiety and Stress levels through the roof knowing a killer disease is spreading fast and we have a massively incompetent govt in place to combat it.
Theres loads of things that could be the final straw for many not to mention suicide and domestic violence. It's hard when you look into individual cases, much harder for those enduring it of course.

 

[Dogsauce]

The 744 'excess deaths' in and around Birmingham not linked to virus The 744 'excess deaths' in and around Birmingham not linked to virus

Some stats here on deaths in Brum &The Black Country for April, not directly Covid 19 related, but the article looks into the fact that the sheer force of the pandemic caused other issues that might have contributed to the deaths. Ill health related to lack of exercise, not necessarily going down the gym but stuff like not going round your mates for a walk or daily to your local shop. Smoking and Drinking more, stress related or just boredom. Anxiety and Stress levels through the roof knowing a killer disease is spreading fast and we have a massively incompetent govt in place to combat it.
Theres loads of things that could be the final straw for many not to mention suicide and domestic violence. It's hard when you look into individual cases, much harder for those enduring it of course.

There will be stuff going in the other direction too, fewer deaths from car accidents, drownings, sports etc. Longer term perhaps less from air pollution too. A difficult job to make sense of it all, you can only talk in nett terms to get a general picture.

 

[2hats]

People who have have been infected with mild or no symptoms are probably more likely to transmit it (for some window of time) respiratorily than those with more severe episodes. Everyone can play a role in transporting fomites.

I should, perhaps, expand a little on this.

Some epidemiologists have been wondering if, in the mild to asymptomatic cases (perhaps these are cases with smaller viral loads) the innate immune defences successfully deal with the infection and thus do not activate the adaptive immunity defence. In the meantime the subject is of course shedding virus. Roll forward to a second encounter with the virus and the innate immune defence fires up again. Or perhaps the viral load is far greater this time and the subject has both innate and adaptive immune responses. Either way there is viral shedding - those with previously mild/no apparent symptoms are still at risk of being re-infected and becoming contagious. (DOI: 10.1016/j.arth.2020.04.055)

This might also explain some degree of false negatives in antibody testing (some assays only look for innate IgM, others only adaptive IgG, and some both IgM and IgG) due to a less than optimal choice of time of testing during the infection episode.

 

[Raheem]

The 744 'excess deaths' in and around Birmingham not linked to virus The 744 'excess deaths' in and around Birmingham not linked to virus

Some stats here on deaths in Brum &The Black Country for April, not directly Covid 19 related, but the article looks into the fact that the sheer force of the pandemic caused other issues that might have contributed to the deaths. Ill health related to lack of exercise, not necessarily going down the gym but stuff like not going round your mates for a walk or daily to your local shop. Smoking and Drinking more, stress related or just boredom. Anxiety and Stress levels through the roof knowing a killer disease is spreading fast and we have a massively incompetent govt in place to combat it.
Theres loads of things that could be the final straw for many not to mention suicide and domestic violence. It's hard when you look into individual cases, much harder for those enduring it of course.

The article seems a bit light on evidence, though, just speculation by Liam Byrne MP.

 

[editor]

This lot seem to be going all libertarian

The State of Emergency as Paradigm of Government: Coronavirus Legislation, Implementation and Enforcement

‘It is clear that, beyond the emergency situation linked to a certain virus which may in the future leave room for another, at issue is the design of a paradigm of government whose effectiveness wi…

architectsforsocialhousing.co.uk

 

[NoXion]

This lot seem to be going all libertarian

The State of Emergency as Paradigm of Government: Coronavirus Legislation, Implementation and Enforcement

‘It is clear that, beyond the emergency situation linked to a certain virus which may in the future leave room for another, at issue is the design of a paradigm of government whose effectiveness wi…

architectsforsocialhousing.co.uk

Jesus fucking Christ:

In my seventh and most recent article about the coronavirus crisis, Manufacturing Consensus, I followed in detail how the official death toll from COVID-19 in the UK is being exaggerated many times above the actual deaths that can be attributed to the disease with any medical certainty through the creation and implementation of the following definitions and guidelines:

Had a quick skim and found this:

On 5 May, the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs brought our attention to the news that ‘there will always be some who seek to exploit a crisis for their own criminal and hostile ends’. This apparently takes the form of ‘cyber-attacks’ from criminal gangs, hackers, hostile states, and what in the cyber security world are known as ‘advanced persistent attack groups’ targeting national and international organisations responding to the COVID-19 pandemic. ‘There are various objectives and motivations that lie behind these attacks’, the First Secretary explained, ‘from fraud on the one hand to espionage. But they tend to be designed to steal bulk personal data, intellectual property and wider information that supports those aims.’

How the fuck is this relevant? Criminal hackers and foreign agents taking advantage of this crisis aren't evidence that the UK government is plotting to take away all our freedoms.

 

[teuchter]

"architects for social housing" is really just two people - Simon Elmer and Geraldine Dening.
I used to follow them/him via a (closed) facebook group. Over time it moved from mainly just stuff (I thought largely pretty good) about social housing to other things, including constant attack on the labour party.
Simon Elmer writes nearly all the political essays - Geraldine Dening seems mainly to stick to the directly housing-related stuff.
A year or so back Simon Elmer started threatening to delete everyone from the group if they didn't state they agreed with certain things and commit to certain actions, and seemed paranoid that it was being infiltrated by labour party stooges. There seemed to be some crossover with Brexit party types in the comments being posted.
Eventually, he did delete everyone. Since then, I've not followed them.
It's a shame because I thought they did some really good, detailed stuff on social housing. Then it went a bit weird, and people like me no longer are in touch with what they do, and now start to doubt some of the housing work that seemed pretty grounded and pragmatic.

 

[BCBlues]

There will be stuff going in the other direction too, fewer deaths from car accidents, drownings, sports etc. Longer term perhaps less from air pollution too. A difficult job to make sense of it all, you can only talk in nett terms to get a general picture.

Yeah I was thinking earlier that stress and anxiety comes in the workplace too and certain jobs cause ill health and deaths. Even if you balance these out though, including the factors you mention, less car accidents etc, the jump in figures from last year is quite alarming.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Yeah I was thinking earlier that stress and anxiety comes in the workplace too and certain jobs cause ill health and deaths. Even if you balance these out though, including the factors you mention, less car accidents etc, the jump in figures from last year is quite alarming.

That's why the difference between total deaths and average deaths from the past is a good measure. You don't really need to think too much about why people have died, or indeed whether others haven't. The net effect is x excess deaths over what you would expect, and that's the measure of the c-19 effect in total, including any possible positive effects such as road deaths.

 

[Epona]

So I can have estate agents and viewers come into my home but I can only meet 1 friend or relative in a public outdoor space, they can't come to my home...

 

[Cerv]

Got a letter from the NHS/Ipsos Mori today asking me if I wanted to take part in a random swab test via home delivery kit. I hate to be that guy who barges into threads without reading the previous twenty pages, but is this a thing now? I'm in favour if so, I realise they need to know what percentage of the population have been infected/are asymptomatic etc, but I was surprised to see the letter as I haven't been near a doctor/dentist/hospital in fifteen years

yeah it's a thing. I know someone who got one. I suspect they more likely used the electoral roll to pick names - that's more centralised already than compiling different GPs surgeries info

have fun sticking the swab all the way down.

 

[teuchter]

So I can have estate agents and viewers come into my home but I can only meet 1 friend or relative in a public outdoor space, they can't come to my home...

Make friends with lots of estate agents - problem sorted

 

[teqniq]

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

So I can have estate agents and viewers come into my home but I can only meet 1 friend or relative in a public outdoor space, they can't come to my home...

It's a good job no-one wants to be friends with any estate agents or it would get very confusing.

 

[cupid_stunt]

So I can have estate agents and viewers come into my home but I can only meet 1 friend or relative in a public outdoor space, they can't come to my home...

If you have a viewing, you're are supposed to leave the property whilst it's being viewed.

 

[Epona]

Isn't it* more about landlords are now able (or soon) to evict tenants who haven't been able to pay their rent and mortgage lenders can resume repossession proceedings? I tend towards cynicism.

EDIT for clarity: By "it" I mean starting to get the housing sector back to normal

 

[Gramsci]

Been talking to a couple of people who work in schools ( my partner is one) They don't want to go back in June. Can't see how teaching is possible in safe way yet. Also think that means travelling on public transport to get to work. Which in London means being on bus or tube.

Partner reckons some parents are going to refuse to send children to school now.

What do posters think?

 

[Gramsci]

Isn't it* more about landlords are now able to evict tenants who haven't been able to pay their rent and mortgage lenders can resume repossession proceedings? I tend towards cynicism.

EDIT for clarity: By "it" I mean starting to get the housing sector back to normal

I have friend who was given notice to quit few weeks ago by the agent who is managing the property for Landlord . Date to leave is the day after the no eviction period ends. Not behind on rent. Owner want property back.

There is a backlog of possession cases which could mean a lot of people losing homes.

 

[andysays]

Been talking to a couple of people who work in schools ( my partner is one) They don't want to go back in June. Can't see how teaching is poosible in safe way yet. Also think that means travelling on public transport to get to work. Which in London means being on bus or tube.

Partner reckons some parents are going to refuse to send children to school now.

What do posters think?

Maybe some parents will refuse to send children back to school, but from the government's POV, they have to get children back at school so their parents can go back to work.

That, I suspect, is what's really driving this.

 

[Petcha]

Fucking hell this Jennie Harries is more full of shit than any politician that's turned up to these bullshit briefings. Isn't she the one who said testing was 'inappropriate' or something a few weeks ago? Why is nobody asking her about that?

The waffle.

 

[Petcha]

Oh and now the BBC has cut away to the fucking weather again. Jesus.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Oh and now the BBC has cut away to the fucking weather again. Jesus.

That's why I always watch it on Sky News now.

 

[20Bees]

So I can have estate agents and viewers come into my home but I can only meet 1 friend or relative in a public outdoor space, they can't come to my home...

My daughter’s cleaner can go to her house but I can only meet her, at a distance, away from her home!

Been talking to a couple of people who work in schools ( my partner is one) They don't want to go back in June. Can't see how teaching is possible in safe way yet. Also think that means travelling on public transport to get to work. Which in London means being on bus or tube.

Partner reckons some parents are going to refuse to send children to school now.

What do posters think?

My grandson’s nursery will open on 1 June. It’s too soon - little ones may be less likely to get COVID-19 but may spread it. All those 3 year olds will be in close physical contact with parents, some of whom may be returning to work and commuting on public transport, and some of those commuters may not get their hands washed and their work clothes out of the way before the 3 year old throws himself into their arms.