Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[cupid_stunt]

when the alternative is buying compost in teeny bags from woollies and schlepping it home in a pushchair i'll admit i'm more than partial to an offer of a lift/"day out" to the garden centre

Woollies?

What year are you posting from?

 

[MickiQ]

A handy timeline of staggering hubris and arrogance.

A timeline of failure.

Through arrogance and incompetence, thousands have needlessly died.

appeasement.org

I've noticed a coping mechanism emerging where the odd colleague or acquaintance will guiltily mutter something like "Yeah but I don't think a Labour government would have done anything any better".

That's another dead cat argument, there is absolutely no evidence that a Corbyn-led Labour government would have been better and may very well have been even more useless but it's not a valid argument since there is no such thing. You might as well say that a LibDem Govt led by Death of Squirrels would be better/worse, we don't have one of those either.
We do have a Tory Govt led by Boris Johnson and whilst they have done some things right, they have made some serious fuckups as well.
Since we live in a democracy we have an absolute right to call out our elected officials and are not required to praise them blindly (That's Trumpian thinking)

 

[lazythursday]

I knew this nutter would be out in town spreading his vileness. I dont know if you're on Twitter lazythursday but I thought you wouldn't want to miss him
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Oh I've seen, Shirl - I have been keeping an eye on Ralph's facebook page, which has been getting increasingly deranged. Given the response in the town on social media I don't think he will be getting many hugs in the square in future! Sad to say I know a second one of these people, and they are close to someone really quite vulnerable to the virus who I really like - utterly infuriating. Trouble is they are not alone - I have a growing list of Hebden folk I will be treating with utter contempt when it's safe to get near enough to them to show it.

 

[frogwoman]

That's another dead cat argument, there is absolutely no evidence that a Corbyn-led Labour government would have been better and may very well have been even more useless but it's not a valid argument since there is no such thing. You might as well say that a LibDem Govt led by Death of Squirrels would be better/worse, we don't have one of those either.
We do have a Tory Govt led by Boris Johnson and whilst they have done some things right, they have made some serious fuckups as well.
Since we live in a democracy we have an absolute right to call out our elected officials and are not required to praise them blindly (That's Trumpian thinking)

Yeah you might as well say 'John Major would have fucked it up worse'.

 

[wayward bob]

Woollies?

What year are you posting from?

the last time i went to a garden centre was at least 10 years ago

 

[quimcunx]

That's another dead cat argument, there is absolutely no evidence that a Corbyn-led Labour government would have been better and may very well have been even more useless but it's not a valid argument since there is no such thing. You might as well say that a LibDem Govt led by Death of Squirrels would be better/worse, we don't have one of those either.
We do have a Tory Govt led by Boris Johnson and whilst they have done some things right, they have made some serious fuckups as well.
Since we live in a democracy we have an absolute right to call out our elected officials and are not required to praise them blindly (That's Trumpian thinking)

What did they do right?

 

[sheothebudworths]

Regarding schools, I had this email (clickable to read the report).

You have backed our calls for a detailed, science driven plan for schools so they can open more widely when it is safe to do so. Today the National Education Union has published a report detailing the questions we been asking Government about the impact on children, families, staff and the wider community of proposals to reopen schools more widely. Our report outlines the urgent questions that must be answered before any easing of the current lockdown.​

Read and share the report​

Over the last six weeks, we have written three times to the Prime Minister and the Secretary of State for Education outlining concern that members and parents and carers of children in our schools have raised about the crisis. We have asked the Government to share its evidence and modelling. We have asked for the publication of peer-reviewed science. So far, there has been no response. This is not acceptable. These questions must be addressed before any wider opening of schools is proposed or no educator or parent can have confidence in such proposals. Please read and share this report far and wide.​

 

[tim]

Lockdown on the Sussex coast became an issue yesterday, mainly from outsiders, many from London, deciding to come down to the likes of Brighton & Worthing.

This was Worthing beach yesterday, nowhere near as busy as a normal sunny day, but certainly the worst since the start of lockdown, and at Easter...

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So, today the police have set-up road checks, the one below is on the A27 into Brighton, apparently there's also one on the A24 into Worthing...

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Anyone from 'the north' are being issued fines, and being turned around.

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We are a low risk/case area, despite being a urban area, unlike to the north of the national park, so we don't want visitors from 'the north' coming here and spreading the plague, thanks very much.

Isn't it great living in a police state.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Isn't it great living in a police state.

It's not a police state, you twat.

The reason for a ban on non-essential travel is to avoid spreading this virus around, most people seem to get that, a small minority needs a kick up the arse, fuck them.

In other European countries, they would be getting beaten & much bigger fines.

 

[brogdale]

Isn't it great living in a police state.

Funny how the old bill were so relaxed about all the Covid seeding street parties yesterday.

 

[Raheem]

Turning people back is maybe OK, but it seems like there are a lot of people getting fined within the guidance that's been given. We're allowed to drive to our daily excercise now, aren't we?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

That's another dead cat argument, there is absolutely no evidence that a Corbyn-led Labour government would have been better and may very well have been even more useless

I don't really accept that.

First, 'Even more useless' is very unlikely. How exactly would that have been possible?

Second, while a Corbyn govt could not have undone things done over the last 10 years that contributed to this crisis, there are many things that this govt has done this year because of the particular nature of this govt. Their prevarication, lack of transparency, total lack of ability to admit mistakes, lack of ability to prioritise the wellbeing of people, lack of willingness to decentralise decision-making. All these are the product of a group used to treating people with contempt, and would have been different with a different government. As one simple, practical example, I would say it is highly unlikely that a Corbyn-led govt would have kept the contents of the Sage meetings secret. As indeed in many other countries, the details of equivalent meetings have been pubic throughout.

 

[killer b]

Funny how the old bill were so relaxed about all the Covid seeding street parties yesterday.

All the photos from street parties yesterday I've seen people getting aerated about today had people in discrete household groups observing the social distancing guidelines. I don't think they will mostly have been particularly risky tbh.

 

[MickiQ]

What did they do right?

I think they've got a few things right, mostly in the areas of preventing (or trying to prevent) non-pandemic damage to society such as the furlough schemes, mortgage holidays, bans on eviction, sweeping up and housing the homeless. I'm under no illusions that they're doing it for hard-headed business reason rather than the goodness of their hearts.
But doing the right thing for the wrong reasons is still doing the right thing. I don't think they have done too badly at managing the lockdown whilst trying not get to heavy about it.
We haven't had the army on the streets in this country. Yes with hindsight maybe something could have been managed better but they (and Labour would have been in the same position) have been in the position of always reacting to the virus rather than being out in front of it.
And that is where they have failed most abjectly, there was no planning ahead despite us being behind the rest of Europe never mind SE Asia. Opportunities to close borders, stock up on PPE etc were missed when they should have seen them coming, they dithered (not as badly as the US Govt) but definitely there seems to have been a hope it would just go away.

 

[keybored]

What did they do right?

Boris making a selfless example of himself on "How not to do social distancing" was pretty inspired.

 

[sheothebudworths]

Van-Tam actually had to have a quiet word with himself during today's briefing when he was talking about the app/track and trace and that only being part of the solution (after using the wonderful term 'foot-leather epidemiology' ) 'How, how...I'm trying to get this right..'.

I think the cycling stuff is great, although I would say that the bike to work scheme offers nothing to workers on minimum wage/zero hours etc who don't earn enough to pay tax and/or NI in the first place, outside of an interest free loan.
Fwiw, I would cycle if there were fewer cars on the road/more cycle lanes - it's traffic that scares me - not that I drive anyway but in terms of keeping me off public transport.

But a scheme that offers a better reduction in the final cost, the more you earn (being tax free), is not massively inclusive to a whole swathe of lower paid groups of workers, many of those who are also likely to be fulfilling essential roles.
Not writing it off as a good idea but there's still something in it that continues to ignore the reality of low/inconsistent wages for lots of people, too.

 

[sheothebudworths]

In other European countries, they would be getting beaten & much bigger fines.

You're being ridiculous.

 

[brogdale]

All the photos from street parties yesterday I've seen people getting aerated about today had people in discrete household groups observing the social distancing guidelines. I don't think they will mostly have been particularly risky tbh.

Fair enough; I suppose there's always a danger of generalising from the specific...it's just the biggest one near me (next road) started at 1pm went on to midnight and with that much drinking time the social distancing discipline fell apart after a while.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Funny how the old bill were so relaxed about all the Covid seeding street parties yesterday.

You mean the ones where people were in their own front gardens, totally within the rules?

Turning people back is maybe OK, but it seems like there are a lot of people getting fined within the guidance that's been given. We're allowed to drive to our daily exercise now, aren't we?

Sussex police has made it clear that locals can drive a short distance to exercise, so I can drive the a mile or so to the south for the seafront, or the same north to the national park, all within the rules.

But, if you are driving fucking miles, or in one case over 150 miles, to get here, risk getting fined & being turned back, it's that simple.

It's policing by consent, and is fully supported locally.

 

[brogdale]

You mean the ones where people were in their own front gardens, totally within the rules?

No, I mean like the one in the road next to mine that had enough drinking time for any pretence at social distancing in the whole road to break down completely.
The sorts that prompted a number of doctors/nurses to take to social media to despair at the potential covid seeding taking place.

 

[Numbers]

Fair enough; I suppose there's always a danger of generalising from the specific...it's just the biggest one near me (next road) started at 1pm went on to midnight and with that much drinking time the social distancing discipline fell apart after a while.

Same as around here. What virus?

 

[cupid_stunt]

You're being ridiculous.

Have you not seen the videos of their militarized police, in the likes of Belgium, beating people up on the streets for breaking their much tougher lockdowns?

Are you not aware of how big some of the fines are across Europe?

We've had it soft, not only in the actual lockdown, but also in the enforcement.

 

[tim]

Sussex police has made it clear that locals can drive a short distance to exercise, so I can drive the a mile or so to the south for the seafront, or the same north to the national park, all within the rules.

But, if you are driving fucking miles, or in one case over 150 miles, to get here, risk getting fined & being turned back, it's that simple.

It's policing by consent, and is fully supported locally.

 

[spitfire]

Have you not seen the videos of their militarized police, in the likes of Belgium, beating people up on the streets for breaking their much tougher lockdowns?

Are you not aware of how big some of the fines are across Europe?

We've had it soft, not only in the actual lockdown, but also in the enforcement.

Indeedy.

My girlfriends uncle was fined €350 for being 1.2 km away from his home address (France) as the maximum permitted distance is 1km. Her 79 year old mum was stopped by the Gendarmes and questioned as to her journey to the supermarket. They then followed her to make sure she went where she said she was going.

My parents, in Dublin, left the house for the first time in 6 weeks on Tuesday for a short walk as restrictions were eased.

This country is lockdown lite by any measure.

 

[sheothebudworths]

All the photos from street parties yesterday I've seen people getting aerated about today had people in discrete household groups observing the social distancing guidelines. I don't think they will mostly have been particularly risky tbh.

Yeah, I don't think anything people have done this weekend is difficult to understand after what we've been drip fed all week.
At yesterday's briefing, it pretty much began by mentioning all the 'speculation' over lifting lockdown but they have continued to do fuck all to address that - we just have to wait for Johnson, tomorrow.
All of that continued vagueness, but along with Sunak ('We will do WHATEVR it takes', lol) looking to wind down the furlough scheme for eg - isn't this what they want?

 

[cupid_stunt]

Congratulations on making yourself out to be a complete cunt.

I wanted to go for my annual long spring weekend visit to see friends in Somerset over the Easter period, or even this weekend.

Did I? No, because I am not a selfish cunt.

 

[Shirl]

Oh I've seen, Shirl - I have been keeping an eye on Ralph's facebook page, which has been getting increasingly deranged. Given the response in the town on social media I don't think he will be getting many hugs in the square in future! Sad to say I know a second one of these people, and they are close to someone really quite vulnerable to the virus who I really like - utterly infuriating. Trouble is they are not alone - I have a growing list of Hebden folk I will be treating with utter contempt when it's safe to get near enough to them to show it.

I'd quite to see your list when the time comes.

 

[cupid_stunt]

My girlfriends uncle was fined €350 for being 1.2 km away from his home address (France) as the maximum permitted distance is 1km.

And, the fines here are just £60, reduced to £30 if paid in 14 days. Although they keep on doubling for each offence thereafter.

Police state, my arse.

 

[sheothebudworths]

Have you not seen the videos of their militarized police, in the likes of Belgium, beating people up on the streets for breaking their much tougher lockdowns?

Are you not aware of how big some of the fines are across Europe?

We've had it soft, not only in the actual lockdown, but also in the enforcement.

It's a stupid, lazy justification to back up you own argument.
I can think of many, more obvious, reasons for people feeling they can travel further now/the diminishing observance of social distancing rules which may happen over this weekend - can't you?

I don't think it follows, either way, that we should just count ourselves lucky that we're not being physically attacked by the police - wtf?!

 

[keybored]

Have you not seen the videos of their militarized police, in the likes of Belgium, beating people up on the streets for breaking their much tougher lockdowns?

Do you mean the one where they're beating up people rioting after a teenager was killed by police, or is there actually footage of people being beaten for driving to the beach?